rest on recurve??
#11
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 239
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From: Glen Ellyn IL USA
I was under the assumtion that "Archer's Paradox was cause by the pressure of the string on the rear of the arrow trying to overcome the arrow's inertia. This , as I understand it, is what makes the arrow bend. If the archer has a release problem, yes it could cause a bigger bend. I remember a bow that used a center hole in the riser and never had a problem with contact using fingers. That hole wasn't any bigger than the WB frame. You couldn't sight down the arrow though. It didn't stay in production very long! By the way, we have several members of our Club using the WB while shooting fingers out of compound bows. Dick
#12
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
From: Southern Ohio USA
That video is an excellent tool to study the flex of a arrow when released. However, how do we know that the arrow in the video isn't made of putty? I always thought that a properly tuned and balanced bow & arrow combination would (and should) minimize the flex. That arrow, in the video, is not making good use of the power of the bow.
#13
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
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The shooter in the video is Terry Ragsdale. I can't think of many people in the whole worldthat have a cleaner fingers release. Remember that a fingers release also adds a lateral component to the string's thrust. The string is pushed sideways out of it's perfect plane of travel when it comes off the fingertips. The lateral thrust increases the amount of flex in the arrow, and it's why the centershot adjustment is slightly outside true centershot. If you're really interested, they do have a video of an intentionally bad release. Go to the main video page on the Beiter siteand check it out.
The video is researchfootage from Beiter, and that should speak for itself. They use their slow-mo video to help them design and manufacture some of the world's finest archery accessories. They would not be using severely underspined arrows for their r&d footage.
The arrow in the video is not usingthe bow's power efficiently, certainly, but that's just what happens with a fingers release. Why do you think release shot arrows are 10-20 fps faster from the same bow than the same arrowsshot with fingers? The answer is right there in the footage.
Fingers shooters can't do like release shooters. Over the past 10 years or so, release shooters have been doing everything in their power to eliminate paradox by using very, very stiff arrows.
Fingers shooters have to select arrows that are spined just right, so when the arrow stabilizes from paradox they will be flying straight on the line of sight. If they are too stiff or too weak, the arrows will fly well off to the sides. The more centershot the bow, the stiffer you can go with arrow selection. The less centershot the bow is, the weaker you have to go in arrow spine.
Another point... Paradox with a compound is less than it would be with a recurve or longbow. For one thing, the arrow pass on the bow's riser is cut well past center, allowing for a lot of lateral adjustment. Most recurves do not have the same degree of centershot.
Also, the arrow is in motion before the cams roll back over and hit peak draw weight. (With a recurve, the arrow gets the full force of the bow immediately on release.) Maybe the compounders who use the wb for shooting fingers are using overly stiff arrows too, which would also reduce paradox. Maybe, just maybe, they can reduce paradox enough to successfully use a wb. I'll reserve judgement until I actually see someone do it (I never have seen it done) and until I witness first hand how well they actually shoot, how consistently accurate they are, and how many fliers they get in their groups.
The video is researchfootage from Beiter, and that should speak for itself. They use their slow-mo video to help them design and manufacture some of the world's finest archery accessories. They would not be using severely underspined arrows for their r&d footage.
The arrow in the video is not usingthe bow's power efficiently, certainly, but that's just what happens with a fingers release. Why do you think release shot arrows are 10-20 fps faster from the same bow than the same arrowsshot with fingers? The answer is right there in the footage.
Fingers shooters can't do like release shooters. Over the past 10 years or so, release shooters have been doing everything in their power to eliminate paradox by using very, very stiff arrows.
Fingers shooters have to select arrows that are spined just right, so when the arrow stabilizes from paradox they will be flying straight on the line of sight. If they are too stiff or too weak, the arrows will fly well off to the sides. The more centershot the bow, the stiffer you can go with arrow selection. The less centershot the bow is, the weaker you have to go in arrow spine.
Another point... Paradox with a compound is less than it would be with a recurve or longbow. For one thing, the arrow pass on the bow's riser is cut well past center, allowing for a lot of lateral adjustment. Most recurves do not have the same degree of centershot.
Also, the arrow is in motion before the cams roll back over and hit peak draw weight. (With a recurve, the arrow gets the full force of the bow immediately on release.) Maybe the compounders who use the wb for shooting fingers are using overly stiff arrows too, which would also reduce paradox. Maybe, just maybe, they can reduce paradox enough to successfully use a wb. I'll reserve judgement until I actually see someone do it (I never have seen it done) and until I witness first hand how well they actually shoot, how consistently accurate they are, and how many fliers they get in their groups.
#14
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
From: Glen Ellyn IL USA
Arthur,
What your saying does make sense and I have seen that type of video many times before but for some reason the guys that I know get their arrows to fly great. I DO AGREE that a flipper and berger button would be a better choice. I wonder if the brush acts like a plunger and retards the bend of the arrow. Just guessing. Dick
What your saying does make sense and I have seen that type of video many times before but for some reason the guys that I know get their arrows to fly great. I DO AGREE that a flipper and berger button would be a better choice. I wonder if the brush acts like a plunger and retards the bend of the arrow. Just guessing. Dick
#15
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
Likes: 0
Retard the paradox or interfere with it? Probably one and the same. [&:] Either way, it's definitely affecting the arrow's ability to paradox and I don't think that's a good thing.
The more I think about it, I've come to realize that when you're only holding 10-15 pounds at full draw, you canrelease the string from a hold that's just barely hangingon your fingertips. That would reduce paradox quite a bit too. But enough about wheelbows. Just chalk it up asanother way they differ from recurves.
The more I think about it, I've come to realize that when you're only holding 10-15 pounds at full draw, you canrelease the string from a hold that's just barely hangingon your fingertips. That would reduce paradox quite a bit too. But enough about wheelbows. Just chalk it up asanother way they differ from recurves.
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