From the engineers own words momentum is not a factor until there is a change in the direction of travel.

So Arthur you shoot a 950 gr. arrow?

How could I be putting words in your mouth when it is right there in black and white. Here you go I even color coded where you said in EVERY case weight increases KE decreases.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>TFOX is right. If you look at Mullaney's bow test reports, he always charts out arrow weight, speed, KE and efficiency for a lot of different arrow weights.<u> I've followed his reports for years and in <font color=red>EVERY</font id=red> case, as arrow weight drops, speed increases, KE decreases and efficiency decreases.</u> Lighter arrows are not as efficient at absorbing stored energy from the bow as heavier arrows are, they carry less of the bow's energy away as KE and leave that extra energy in the bow to come out as noise and vibration. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Protect your hunting rights, &quot;Spay or neuter a liberal.&quot;

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Silentassassin, your setup falls into this category (as does mine since our setups are almost identical), but would you be willing to use that setup to hunt cape buffalo in Africa? I know I wouldn't, but I wouldn't want that slow log flinging setup either.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

What would you use in grains per pound of draw and KE? I know that I would use mine on Moose - 33&quot; draw, 70 pounds, 10 grains per inch, XX78 2613, magnus 187 grain tip (including adapter).

HuntingBry... You picked up on that too, huh? I was thinking the same thing myself. Good analogy. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

&quot;My contention is that with a slower set up (round wheels, soft cams, traditional gear) and longer draw lengths you are better off with heavier arrows that will store more of the limited energy that you have. Arthur, let's face it you won't be straining your round wheel bow too much with lighter arrows. On the other hand, with a setup designed for speed and shorter draw lengths, which includes many of today's bows, you are better off with lighter arrows that will translate much of that stored energy into speed and create high amounts of KE with the higher fps.&quot;

That is kinda what I was trying to introduce into the discussion a couple of pages ago. I would liken it to a ping pong ball and a golf ball. Throw a ping pong ball with your best, overhand, Nolan Ryan type fastball pitch and then do the same with the golfball. The golfball rockets away and the pingpong ball kinda lobs off into the ground a few yards off. Then set the two balls on a table and thump each one with your finger (like playing paper football). The pingpong ball goes flying across the room and the golfball rolls a few inches while you dance around holding your finger and muttering unrepeatable words.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

A setup with a long power stroke, like mine at 25&quot;, would show having an efficiency range on the heavy end. The short power stroke, 20-22 inches like 'most' people probably have with their bows, would have a lighter range of arrows they would shoot efficiently.

I also think that long, heavy limbs vs short, light limbs, or bows with a lot of limb tip travel vs those with short limb tip travel, would show the same difference in what arrow weights they would be more efficient with.

Does that make sense?

By the way, for you Silentassassin, the same analogy only with a baseball and a bowling ball. You can throw the baseball a long way but the bowling ball won't go far at all. The bowling ball is way too heavy for your efficiency range. There are limits on both ends of the arrow weight scale, which TFOX and I discussed a few posts back.

So we are all starting to agree. Knowledge is a beautiful thing.

Arthur how many grains does your arrow weigh?

Protect your hunting rights, &quot;Spay or neuter a liberal.&quot;

600 grains, an even 10 grains per pound of draw weight.

Over the years, I've found 12 grains per pound generally is the upper end of what my bows will shoot well.

Edited by - Arthur P on 08/22/2002 13:21:01

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Silentassassin, your setup falls into this category (as does mine since our setups are almost identical), but would you be willing to use that setup to hunt cape buffalo in Africa? I know I wouldn't, but I wouldn't want that slow log flinging setup either.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

No, I wouldn't want to take it to Africa. If I did go to Africa though I would be pulling 100lbs and shooting a carbon arrow with a carbon blank inside of it. I feel like my arrow weight would go up proportionally with the increase in draw weight and I would stay on the low side in grains per inch and try to keep all of the speed that I could.

Protect your hunting rights, &quot;Spay or neuter a liberal.&quot;

Sorry for the confusion Silentassassin, the quote (statement) belonged to HuntingBry, he left his statement kind of open and I was wondering what he would use since he wouldn't use either of the mentioned setups.

Edited by - BobCo19-65 on 08/22/2002 14:16:26

Bob, if I were to hunt dangerous game in Africa I would have to get a completely different setup. I wouldn't have the luxury of pulling 100 lbs. like Silent, not with my 5'8&quot; 155 lb. frame. However, I would get up around 75-80 lb.s. Also, I would move more toward the middle road in terms of grains per pound (probably between 7 and 8). I would like my arrows at least 625 grains with no less than a 12% FOC preferably around 15%. Since I would want a setup like that to shoot those arrows approximately 250 fps I would be looking at around 90 ft. lbs. of energy. I think you could count on killing anything on this planet with that set up.
Arthur, glad you liked the analogy. Yes what you said makes sense. Here is another one for you. It's kind of like Bruce Lee and his nunchuks and Thor and his hammer. Bruce Lee can hit you a helluva lot quicker than Thor, but I know who I'd rather have hitting me.<img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle>

In South Africa, the regulations call for a minimum 80 ft lbs of KE and 700 grain arrows for Cape Buffalo, and 105 ft lbs of KE and 850 grain arrows for hippo, rhino and elephant. Don't know if you'd quite make it to legal arrow weight for the big boys by stacking carbon blanks inside carbon arrows.

Given the choice between Bruce Lee and Thor, I'd pick C. None of the above.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>


Edited by - Arthur P on 08/22/2002 14:48:46