If I'm not mistaken, Uncle Ted shoots a carbon arrow weighing 500 gr. To me that's not a light arrow, to others it may be. I shoot Redlines at a total weight of 375 gr. This combination flys and groups well for me, giving me a good blend of what I want. Speed, KE, and resulting penetration. Not to mention most important of all, GOOD ACCURACY.

Phil.

BobCo, it IS hard to find a bow for my draw length. I do like this ProTec though. Deflex riser to make it hard to torque the bow. 46&quot; axle to axle and I like round wheels for shooting fingers. Slow as dirt compared to most of today's stuff, but I don't have any problem hanging with the sight shooters at the local 3D courses. I certainly shoot better with sights, but not enough better to put up with the problems that go along with them in the woods. Especially with middle aged eyeballs.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Gets back to that confidence thing.

Arthur,

Your arguments are probably the best, especially if we consider the average hunter. My problem (well, not really a problem), is that I can easily tune my fixed blade broadheads to group with my field tips. Put me at 30 yards with my 100 grain Muzzys on a 300 grain shaft and I can't shoot a group with my broadheads, because I'd likely ruin the previous arrow with the next shot. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

I will say that if I was advising a person who was having problems with tuning their broadheads, it would be to shoot a long ATA like you, heavy arrows, high brace height, feathers, round wheels, and 2 bladed cut on contact broadheads.

My sincere apologies TFox I in no way was calling you a liar or even implying that. I am sorry you took it that way. What I was driving at was the disparity in number aluminum to carbon are not what some people believe in shaft length.
Again I am truly sorry you took me to be that implying anything about your knowledge or expertise, both of which by the nature of your posts to be to be in my opionion very good.
I was just making the point as to the weight of 1 raw shaft to another can be considerable and at times missleading.




Greg

&quot;Getting close to the game is the joy of Bowhunting for me, the harvest is a bonus.&quot;

Live 15 ft Python after eating a small Antelope!

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Silentassassin, what HAVE you been smoking? You've combined something that I posted with a couple things someone else posted then made insulting comments. Who are you talking to, anyway? Would it be possible for you to refrain from the personal attacks while you 'defend carbon arrows', for whatever reason you seem to feel it's necessary? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Having trouble following along? My statements adressed the person that was quoted right above it, regardless of who that might have been. If the shoe fits......

I am not making personal attacks, no more than Bob-co or you anyway. I am merely pointing out the truth to the both of you!!!

Protect your hunting rights, &quot;Spay or neuter a liberal.&quot;

Actually, Arthur, at the time I was buying my new compound bow, my three choices were Martin Scepter Elite, Hoyt Protech, and the Parker. I ended up with the Parker. However, when I am in the market again, I will probably go with the Hoyt. A good friend of mine asked for my opinion on bows this past year, and I told him to at least pick up the Hoyt ProTech. He did, and ended having to order one because he wanted a twin cam instead of the single that was on the bow. Hopefully it will be here for him before the season starts.

PDQ, you are correct, 500 grains isn't really a very lite. I have always wondered about trying the heavier carbon arrows such as the Rhinos by carbon Tech, but never really got much reponse on how they actually fly. Maybe next year, I'll give them a try. I believe that they weigh about 11 grains per inch which are similiar to the XX78 2613 in weight anyway.

Edited by - BobCo19-65 on 08/20/2002 15:12:12

Edited by - BobCo19-65 on 08/20/2002 15:14:08

Amosgreg

Thanks,I have no reason to lie about anything but the way I read it just looked personall to me.Glad it wasn't.


Arthur and Bobco,you may be better served with a heavy aluminum because as Arthur has stated before,carbon tolerances aren,t very good at 30&quot;+.

Arthur,I would also like to add that the AC kinetic II should have better tolerances at the longer lengths due to the fact they are .011 thick aluminum wrapped with carbon.281 diameter and a built arrow spined for you would be in 550gr range.You said it yourself,a light carbon is better than a light aluminum.Wouldn't the same hold true that a heavy carbon would be better than a heavy aluminum.They are very expensive but even I would like to try them.Mine would weigh about 430gr though.I would use a cut to tip head with them but would like to try them.I should still get around 250 fps



Explain this to me.Why is it that the momentum people always say to use cut to tip but the light carbon people such as myself can use mechanicals.I'll tell you why,friction,momentum people need to eliminate as much friction as possible.I havn't seen 1 person say they have had succes with expandables and 600 gr arrows.I'm sure that their will be 1 now but that would be the first I have heard of.


Like the Energizer bunny,STILL GOING. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

Yep, TFOX. It stands to reason that a heavy carbon would be better than a heavy aluminum. In fact, the testing I've done with weighted carbons has been promising but, like you said, the tolerances go to pot at my arrow length. The Carbonaeros I bought not long ago have been the best of the lot, so far, and they come from the factory at 32 1/2&quot; long. That just happens to be the length arrow I use, so I don't get to trim the bad stuff off the ends.

An aluminum core wrapped in carbon would seem to give me the best of both worlds. I just haven't been able to force myself to lay out the big bucks for them when straight aluminum does such a good job for me.

The reason most of us momentum people say cut-to-tip broadheads is because we're mostly old knothead stickbow shooters and that's what we're comfortable with.

I really don't know how my arrow at 215 fps would work with a mechanical. Plenty of KE, but would it open the blades fast enough? More testing is obviosly in order. But then, there are those Snypers with a cut-to-tip point on them. Hmmm...

Edited by - Arthur P on 08/20/2002 16:41:50

Norb Mullaney has a detailed tech article on this very subject in the Wisconsin BowHunter membership magazine that came in the mail today.

I'll see if I can take it to work and scan it in tomorrow.....

Black Frog,

I was wondering where you were at.Can't wait to see what Norb has to say.

Arthur,knothead seems to sum it up nicely.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

The Kinetic II's are 32.5&quot; long for the 340 and 33.0&quot; long for the 300's.I am sure the 300's would be the ones for you.Depending on where you go,it looks like they are going to cost about $125.00 a dozen for raw shafts.OOUCH!!!!. They are most likely worth it though.