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Explain this to me?

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Explain this to me?

Old 09-27-2004, 07:32 AM
  #1  
Spike
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Default Explain this to me?

This weekend I was shooting my broadheads to make sure they were flying like my field points. I had already paper tuned and was shooting bullet holes with my field points. I shot some new three blade (100grain) muzzies at the target and saw them shoot way low and to the right. I shot several arrows and saw this pattern with all of the arrows, yet the grouping was not anything to be pleased about. Before I started adjusting things on my bow I tried a four blade muzzy 100grain head on a different arrow. I shot it and Bulls-eye, I shot four blades on the other arrows and saw the same thing. For a reason I can't explain the four blade shoots like my field points, but the three blade shoots awful. What is going on to cause this?
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Old 09-27-2004, 07:42 AM
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Default RE: Explain this to me?

Can't comment on the specifics of why the 4 blade is flying better than the 3 blade, but that the 3 blade is flying differently at all suggests a couple possibilities.

1. That particular arrow isn't straight
2. The broadhead isn't centered........did you spin test?
3. You have less than perfect arrow flight, regardless of a good paper tune.

I too had bullet holes with field tips and although this helped me set center shot, when I screwed a broadhead on I was hitting 4" low at 30 yards.

I used this Easton photo to eliminate the less than perfect arrow flight and now field tips and broadheads are hitting the same up to 50 yards, my last shooting range.

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Old 09-27-2004, 08:41 AM
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Default RE: Explain this to me?

I general the smaller the blades the better they will fly because there is less material to wind plane. A four bladed muzzie is smaller than a three bladed muzzie. therefore doesn't plane as much and appears to be closer to the field tips.
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Old 09-27-2004, 08:50 AM
  #4  
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Default RE: Explain this to me?

A four bladed muzzie is smaller than a three bladed muzzie
Good point Bees.......
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Old 09-27-2004, 09:38 AM
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Default RE: Explain this to me?

If you want to see how well your tune is simply put a larger bladed broahead on and shoot them. It's definitlely opened my eyes a time or two! Bees made a good point. The Muzzy 3 blade is 3/16th of an inch wider. Here are a few questions about your setup:

1. Are your 3 blade Muzzy's grouping well or are the groups erratic or very large? Errors in form, wide grain variances in arrows, shaft straightness, and arrow wobble greatly exaggerate group size!
2. What is your bow weight vs your arrow spine..correct spined arrows?


When shooting broadheads it really pays to spin them and get all the wobble out. I also weigh each arrow assembled with my hunting broadheads and pick the ones that are less than 1 grain in variation. Make sure your nocks are aligned on the shaft as well and pay special attention to the fletching for wobble as well. Remember that paper tuning is only a starting point. I almost always have to move my rest after I get bullets holes in paper when I group tune and tune my broadheads to shoot with my field tips. Here's something to think about: On my bow a movement of the rest or nock set of 1/32" will move my broadhead group 1.25" @ 30yds! That is why I get my broadheads and field tips together at 30yds then move to 60, 70, and even 80yds to micro tune (although this is really not necessary unless you just want to). If you want to shoot the Muzzy 3 blades make sure your broadhead group is tight first. Then move your nock point and rest to get them together. On a side note, I still shoot bullet holes after setting my broadheads with my field tips. I cannot tell which is more of a bullet hole than the other. That is why I do not trust paper tuning as a "final" tune setup. Select proper arrows for your setup, check your arrows for variances and wobble, paper tune, group tune as far as your capable, then tune your broadheaded arrows to your field tipped arrows as far as you are capable. Those procedures will allow you to shoot any broadhead you want....sorry for the long post!

Another side note: While on the subject of tuning, the best thing a person can do to improve their groups is Practice, Practice, Practice, then Practice some more! It's too easy to get caught up in tinkering with a bow and neglect the best thing a person can do and that is to practice shooting and working on form and release.
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Old 09-27-2004, 11:34 AM
  #6  
Spike
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Default RE: Explain this to me?

Sorry that I didn't give or make clear the specifics. My set up Hoyt MT sport (medium cam bow) 2117 shaft size, 26 inch, 70lbs, with 100 grain head. When I kicked up the weight last year I checked which shaft size I needed and according to Easton it is correct. Now here is a little more detail about what happened:

1. I shot 12 different arrows with (the same) 3 blade muzzy broadhead. Since I shot one arrow at a time I can't really tell you how they grouped. They were consistantly about 6 inch low and 8 inch right. To make sure that I was not torquing the bow I would shoot a field point occasionally after shooting the three blade broadhead. The field point was consistantly in the 10 ring.

2. I just so happen shot a four blade broadhead on another arrow and saw that it hit exactly where my field points were hitting. I then wondered if the four blade broadhead would hit with the arrows that I had been shooting the three blade head with, and they did. I dont have anything to spin test the arrows with.

Again, if this is a form issue why does it not show up with field points or four blade broadheads. I don't proclaim to be an expert in tuning, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see how the bow would discriminate this much between the small difference of the 3 and 4 blade diameter. Should I shoot a different 3 blade head to see if there was a problem with the head that I shot?
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Old 09-27-2004, 12:03 PM
  #7  
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Default RE: Explain this to me?

Follow the tuning advice in the photo above and do so incrementally. Make only small adjustments and I bet you'll be able to watch your 3 blade broadhead arrows "walk" toward the field tips.

Keep in mind, changing your rest will obviously change your site pins. Don't worry about the pins at first. Concentrate on the relationship between your bh's and field tips. Once they're hitting the same spot based on your rest/nocking point adjustments, then readjust your sights.
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Old 09-27-2004, 12:16 PM
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Default RE: Explain this to me?

I feel this is still a tuning issue. However, 6" low and 8" right is a lot of adjustment. But, that 3 blade is also 18.75% wider than the 1" 4 blade, that's a bit more planing area. You would have to move your rest to the left and your nock set down to get them together. With that much adjustment you'll have to resight your bow also, however you'll be hitting all 3 tips together. Sounds like your form is ok since you're getting consistant groups also. This late in the game I would be inclined to stick with the 4 blade muzzy's. However, it would only take an afternoon to get things set. As for a spinner? Well, I made my own out of a long board, 2 joist hangers and 2 sets of drawer rollers. I also put a line on a pick of label at the front that is .3mm wide and tune my broadheads to center that line when spun. It works great but takes a little time to make. I find it to be better than the commercial ones (doesn't look like it though). Here's a picture. It is well worth it to get the wobble out. Your broadhead groups will be as small as your field tip groups. Just remeber if you move your rest and nock point to set one at a time so you can always go back if you make a mistake.

Arrow Spinner

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Old 09-27-2004, 12:17 PM
  #9  
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Default RE: Explain this to me?

IMO 2117's are not stiff enough for your setup. I'd shoot 2216's.
Also, I doubt seriously that the extra width on the 3blade heads made any difference at all. Double check to see that the heads are on straight.
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Old 09-27-2004, 12:29 PM
  #10  
Spike
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Default RE: Explain this to me?

Thanks for the help.
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