Rangeball

And fondled the Justice, Mighty Mite and "Liberty (?)".

Stopped buy a "local" shop an hour away, had some time to kill prior to an appointment. Racks upon racks of new Mathews bows. I pulled one off the shelf, though it had to be an LX or something, cause it seemed much longer than my 30.5" ATA Diamond Hornet. Lo and behold, it was an outback. The long riser really gives the impression that the bow is much longer ATA than it really is.

Initial impression- Camo is really nice, I tend to prefer more browns than greens, and this one was nice. Finish was excellent, no visible flaws, and the machining seemed top notch. I really liked the look of the bow, as I'm one of those freaks who thinks Parallel limb bows with long risers are purdy...

I drew it back several times, felt very smooooth. I've always been a big grip kind of guy, and really liked the feel of the grip on this bow. Guy came up, I asked him if I could shoot it, he smiled and said "ok".

First shot and I got an idea of what everyone is talking about with the trend towards quiet, no handshock vibration free just sits in your hand bows. Simply amazing. FDC was silky smooth, but as reported before, the bow has no effective valley whatsoever. Although the bow had no sight installed, it held very steady and felt like it would be a dream to aim with.

I flung a few, each feeling as good as the first, and asked the guy what the bow was set on. He said 62#. I noticed the arrows were CE game tracker terminator selects, seemed full length, so most probably they weighed around 500 grains. No wonder the bow was quiet, but I tend to think the bow would be quiet at IBO regardless.

I asked him to crank it up to 70#, and shot a few this way. Still relatively easy to draw, very smooth, but set on 80% let off without the valley, you better be conscious of back tension or it wants to seriously take off.

All in all, while I wish the bow had more valley, I could see myself being very happy shooting something as pleasant to shoot as the Outback is.

I told the guy I had a few more bows I was interested in checking out, including Bowtechs new line up. He got this serious look on his face, and said "I don't like to talk about other companies, but all bowtechs talk about is speed, and Mathews is faster. Mathews are much better bows that Bowtech".

Appointment took longer than expected, and racing my way home I decided to swing by another shop that is rarely open that is carrying Bowtech this year. I walked/ran in, asked if they had a Justice, Liberty and a Patriot. Guy thought they had all, and handed me his Justice.

Initially, I was expecting a more Brown dominant camo pattern. In real life they seem to be more green. Camo was very nice, certainly wouldn't be a deal killer Grip was not the camo laminate (which I would DEMAND), and was quite a bit thinner than the Mathews grip. Bow seemed thinner and smaller overall than the Outback, but again the long riser and parallel limbs made the Justice appear much longer than the ATA spec states.

Bow drew very smooth, held easy. The more than ample valley was readily apparent. The guy had it set on high let off, and it almost seemed as if I could let go of the string and the bow would stay drawn Really enjoyed the valley. I would prefer a thicker/bigger grip, but as I said before, I'm a freak, and I could always address this aftermarket if I had to. I was really short on time, so didn't even ask to shoot it. Since it was his personal bow and all tuned up and ready to go, I didn't ask him to crank it up to 70# so I could feel the FDC.

While I was checking the Justice out, he and his partner were having discussion as to which bow they apparently sold, the Liberty of the Patriot SC. He eventually handed me a bow, and said it was the Liberty, set on 70#s. The brace jumped out at me as being noticeably shorter than the Justice. I started to draw it, and was shocked, it was MUCH tougher to pull than the Justice. MUCH tougher. Draw was smooth, no big humps, but it hit early and carried through quite a ways back. Nothing unmanageble, but my shoulder was set for a Justice like experience, and this was definitely different. Other than that, everything stated above about the Justice pretty much applied to this bow.

Guy came in from the next room, to show me his mighty mite. Very nice bow, but the 1" less brace height made the bow seem much shorter ATA than the Justice. Funny how our mind plays tricks on us.

I had to hit the road, and told them I'd be back some day soon to shoot them. As I was driving home, I convinced myself that the bow they handed me as the Liberty HAD to be the SC Patriot. I was in such a hurry, I didn't even look at the name on the limb, nor the size of the idler.
In any event, I plan a return trip soon to fling some arrows.

Now if I could only find a Merlin dealer...

Cougar Mag

Rangeball, I am unable to shoot for a few weeks, but my local shop has some new Outbacks in. When I told him 65% letoff was the max for me........he told me I would not like it. Is the valley really that narrow?

Rangeball

Cougar, for all practical purposes, it does not exist...

Seriously, just when the thing let's off you hit the wall. No creeping allowed...

I also said I'd be interested in shooting it at 65%, and was promptly told P&Y changed so I didn't have to. I said I could give a rat's a, tail end, that 65% feels better to me. He just looked bewildered.

I suspect the info you got was entirely correct...

Rangeball

Thought I'd take the E-bay approach to drum up some more views/responses...



Just for curiousity, is there any way to increase the valley on the outback, like letting the cam over-rotate a bit or so? What would this do to performance?

tm

With a little tweaking I've got a much better valley on my Outback without sacrificing speed or much draw length. I put a smaller rubber on the draw stop. So far I'm liking it better.

Rangeball

tm, care to expand on exactly what you did and how much valley you gained?

I'd have to hunt some of those up. All I have on hand are the extra-large ones...

DaveC

Rangeball, your experience differs from what I felt. I hope I didn't draw and shoot a fluke smooth patriot when I decided to order one.

I was pulling back a Patriot at ~65# and liking the way it felt when I grabbed a Justice that had a few turns out on it and drew it back, it wasn't the oh-so smooth experience I was expecting. I commented about it and they guy selling the bows said " ya, I'm not too sure what all they hype is about".

They didn't have any Liberties in stock and after shooting the Patriot set a little over ~62# I decided it was the bow for me, but then again- I'm only going to be pulling 62-64#.

I did draw a couple of outbacks, but I don't even know why I picked them up, I'm not currently in a Mathews mood.

PABowhntr

I definitely think you were drawing the Pat SC and not the Liberty. There is a noticeable difference between the Infinity and Freedom cams. My MM VFT at 70 lbs feels quite a bit different than my Liberty at 70 lbs...

As for it being extremely uneasy to handle (which is sort of what I took from what you related)....at over 70 lbs I would tend to agree with you a bit. The infinity cam has a stiff draw cycle. Couple that with a heavy draw weight and an inch shorter brace height and you will have an entirely different experience when going from the Justice to the Pat SC.

I am curious though as to why you thought the brace height on the MM was an inch shorter than the Justice. There is only a quarter inch difference on the two bows I handled recently.

Cougar Mag

No Outback for me then Range, I don't like surprises.

Rangeball

My memory was bad, you are right, BH spec is only 1/4" apart on the two. I didn't have them side by side, but for some reason, my initial impression of the MM was that it had a shorter brace. Just what jumped out at me, I didn't consciously remember that it was, just struck me as so...

I'm certain the bow was an SC Pat and not a Liberty. At 70#, it wasn't too much to handle, just not what I was geared up for at the moment. After I drew it back a few more times, it was noticeably smoother than my Hornet, but required every bit of the effort.