The Max Xtreme is not "heavy" by any means, just heavier than the current featherweights! (Machete for instance is 3lbs 6 oz and the Max-Xtreme is 4lb) Everyone has gone to this "lighter is better" mentality and no-one can tell me that they hold better at full draw with a much lighter bow---a heavier bow is much more stable.

I carry both the Diamonds and Merlins in the shop, and they are two different animals---the Diamonds are less expensive because of alot of attributes that they simply do not have when compared to the Merlin--

Carbon limbs with the highest carbon content in the industry with parabolic design and laminated limbskins on the Merlins versus standard composite limbs of the Diamonds.

Hybrid cam system with straight and level nock travel at all drawlengths versus conventional modular solocam without.

Locking, pivoting limb pockets lined with vibration-reducing membrane, versus standard bolt-on.

Adjustable carbon cableguard versus non-adjustable straight rod.

6082 Aluminum machined riser versus 6061

Soloflex premium 8125 strings and cables versus stock factory D97 or 450+

The price of admission is different certainly, but you start to see why....

I have also tested the Max-Xtreme versus the Machete and feel that SA is correct on most points--I agree the Machete is a bit faster, but does exhibit more recoil than the Max-Xtreme. The Machete also as noted has less brace height, and shorter ATA which will account for some of this. The Max-Xtreme is meant to be a smooth quiet hunting bow with no recoil or handshock, not designed to be a barn-burner. However even so it produces very capable speeds and is actually only 9-10FPS slower than the Machete through our chronos at the same drawlength and poundage using the same arrow. If we directly compare it to the Undertaker instead of the Machete which is much closer to the same specs as the Max-XTreme this difference drops to less than 4-5fps.

Dynamic balance is awesome on the Xtreme, and probably would be also on the Machete if it had the same cam system---conventional solo systems do not have symmetrical eccentrics on both ends of the bow such as a twin or hybrid system does, therefore dynamic balance suffers. They also can have differing limbtip travels due to this and some will "kick" at the shot. The Machete does well for a conventional solo however and will settle down nicely with correct stabilization. The Max Xtreme is dead-nuts still at the shot with great balance even without any stabilization. It only gets better when you add the goodies.

Both bows fill a different niche and as stated are two different animals that target two different clientels----and it all simply depends upon what you are looking for in a bow. Personally money is no object to me when choosing equipment because I demand only the best and will pay to get it. I sell both bows out of the shop and they both cater to their intended clientel quite well. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12

Pinwheel,

The carbon limbs sound good and I'm guessing that the type of aluminum is better or you wouldn't have mentioned it. It makes me question why the warranty is only two years with full coverage, and only 5 years with the owner paying part of the cost. Does Merlin not have the confidence to match the warranty of other bows priced over $700? So many are giving a limited lifetime warranty on their bows, even the lower priced ones. I know that lifetime is not the owners lifetime, but I have a hard time believing that all wouldn't honor it for more then two years. I'm leaning to purchasing a Merlin Max Extreme and I'm quite certain I will keep it for more then 2 years, but I would hate to have to put any more money into it, if there's a problem a few years down the road.

SA-

Merlin is doing nothing different than Martin or Alpine or what a handful of other companies are doing with their 5 year limited warranty---in fact Martins' warranty is very closely worded to almost the same as Merlins.

Merlin stands behind their products 100%, and that is the bottom line. If say 15 years from now you had a problem with a bow that had a so-called "lifetime warranty"----do you actually believe that you would get it repaired for free or a replacement bow that will probably cost $2500 then for your $700 bow now IF it offered a "lifetime warranty"? LOL, keep dreaming--- Example---High Country made their Supreme in the early 90's and this bow was one of the most popular bows of it's time, it won everything and was a great hunting bow to boot. Now, only about 12 years later, do you realistically think you could get one repaired for free, or replaced with a new model? No. First because they no longer carry parts for them because they are "obsolete", (most companies only carry parts for 3-5 years and they love to use that word after that) and second because a "new" bow would cost more money. What they do is "pro-rate" according to age and retail value of said bow at time of sale, and then act accordingly. All companies do this, so when you get down to the meat of it your "Lifetime Warranty" is nothing more than a marketing ploy used by manufacturers. Merlin, Martin, Alpine, and others do not "blow smoke" and tell you straight, that simple. That's all. Most people do not keep their bows for more than 3-5 years as a general rule, so a "Lifetime Warranty" only applies to those who keep their bow for more than that timespan, and what with the parts not being available much after say 3 years, they are thus subject to the same type of "prorating" and are on the same page as any other company offering a 5 year limited warranty or equivalent.

Bottom line---if you trust in the quality of the company you purchase from, you will have no problems. Merlin will back their equipment and if nothing happens in two to five years under normal use, chances are nothing is going to---- and besides, you have a solid contact here in the states should you ever have problems anyway. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12

Rangeball , I liked the new Bowtech line too.......but the grip was too thin for me ! I think you must have drawn something besides a Liberty also ! The Liberty had a smoother draw than the Justice or Outback to me !

Cougar Mag......the Outback comes with two cams : an adjustable 80 % or a 65% non adjustable ! I haven't shot a 65% only cam ......but the 80% has a narrow(but managable)valley.......when adjusted to 65% it has absolutely none ! I would guess that the 65% only cam has a better feel than the 80% adjusted to 65% ......but like I said.....haven't tried it out !

I don't understand what that means. If I trust Merlin, that doesn't mean I won't have a problem with my bow in 5 years.

Like I said, I realize it isn't an owner's lifetime that they're referring to, but I also don't believe they are all simply "blowing smoke". I know of numerous examples of great service (for free) on warranty isssues that occured many years down the road, from a few different companies.

From what I've seen, it seems to be the norm to offer the limited lifetime warranty. It is offered by Mathews, Hoyt, Parker, Archery Research, Bow Tech, PSE, Kodiak, Diamond, High Country, Champion, McPherson, and Proline, to name a few.

To me, it isn't a question of how long they keep the parts. Merlin may not keep theirs any longer. They question becomes, when they can repair it, who pays for it?

Hey!!!! Anyone else notice that bohunt signed his post, Pinwheel 12???[:@]
Fishy!!!

Looks to me like he was including a quote from PW12, but what do I know???

WWAG, anything that has my name even remotely included you think is "fishy"! LOL.

Nice try tho! Pinwheel 12

What!!! No 9 paragraph reply?[&:]

From what I was told on the HP cam on the Outback, there is no "65% let off " cam, let off is changed on the same cam by which peg the string is attached to. When set on the 65% let off peg, the cam loses 1/2" of draw length... and I assume what very little valley there was to begin with