Paper tuning Question
03-03-2004, 02:01 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 947
Paper tuning Question
I have a high tear when I paper shoot. Does moving the rest up do the same as moving the nock point down? My string loop is so darn tight, it is a pain in the #@$ to move without ruining it.
03-03-2004, 02:48 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Central PA
Posts: 2,299
RE: Paper tuning Question
You are correct, moving it up with be the same. Just becareful where your arrow is in relation to the rest mounting hole. You don't want the shaft to be above the hole too high.
03-03-2004, 05:25 PM
#4
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Paper tuning Question
I want my arrow splitting center of the mounting hole and will not go higher than that with the rest. Whatever it takes, I'd move the loop instead. Or, you can do away with a little bit of high tear by taking a bit of draw weight off the top limb bolt.
03-03-2004, 08:30 PM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Central PA
Posts: 2,299
RE: Paper tuning Question
Arthur P, just curious, what effects does having it slightly high in the hole have? I've always wondered that. Is this something to do with the flipper style rest being mounted there? Hard to explain, but when mount a flipper syle, the arrow is in the center of the hole and is the correct height?
03-03-2004, 08:52 PM
#6
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Paper tuning Question
It's the 'teeter totter' effect. The hole is generally a good inch over the top of your hand already, which would be the fulcrum. You're pulling behind the arrow, so the center of pressure for your hand is lower than the center of pressure for the arrow. That places an unbalanced load on the limbs from the get go. Lots of bows that I've shot with the limbs set to even tiller want to rock backwards in your hand during the draw, because too much pressure is being loaded on the top limb.
Raise the arrow above that hole, and you just increase the unbalanced load on the limbs. You can tune the tiller to compensate, but that means backing off on the top limb bolt, which reduces the draw weight. I'd rather minimize the problem and maintain the draw weight rather than add to the problem and slap a bandaid over it.
Raise the arrow above that hole, and you just increase the unbalanced load on the limbs. You can tune the tiller to compensate, but that means backing off on the top limb bolt, which reduces the draw weight. I'd rather minimize the problem and maintain the draw weight rather than add to the problem and slap a bandaid over it.
03-03-2004, 09:57 PM
#7
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Paper tuning Question
Actually what you call a bandaid fix Arthur is what most top tuners will do to tune a bow.It is part of creep tuning and was done on my bow when I had a set of strings and cables made, we put it on a machine to get the absolute most forgiving setup possible.
After we got done and I was talking to my friend that just built the strings and put it on the machine.He said usually the best you will be able to get a bow is to set the tiller even and then put about a 1/4 twist on the bottom limb and that is usually the best you will get.May be different for a 1 cam,I don't know.
I usually tune my own equipment but when you get strings and cables made by this guy,the Hooter Shooter tune is part of the price.Not bad .
I have always heard that the hole is the best place to set the arrow but I asked this guy and he said it is just a starting place and really means nothing.Like I have stated on this site before,the guy has tuned a couple of world record holders out there(in youth but records anyhow) .I just looked in my Easton tuning quide and a Martin tuning quide and I can't find it said anywhere that the arrow should be centered in the hole.
Has this just become "standard procedure" over the years?
After we got done and I was talking to my friend that just built the strings and put it on the machine.He said usually the best you will be able to get a bow is to set the tiller even and then put about a 1/4 twist on the bottom limb and that is usually the best you will get.May be different for a 1 cam,I don't know.
I usually tune my own equipment but when you get strings and cables made by this guy,the Hooter Shooter tune is part of the price.Not bad .
I have always heard that the hole is the best place to set the arrow but I asked this guy and he said it is just a starting place and really means nothing.Like I have stated on this site before,the guy has tuned a couple of world record holders out there(in youth but records anyhow) .I just looked in my Easton tuning quide and a Martin tuning quide and I can't find it said anywhere that the arrow should be centered in the hole.
Has this just become "standard procedure" over the years?
03-03-2004, 10:13 PM
#8
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Paper tuning Question
I would like to add that I know creep tuning is done with timing but some start out by adjusting the tiller first.
www.bowmanbows.com/creep.htm check this out.
www.bowmanbows.com/creep.htm check this out.
03-03-2004, 10:54 PM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903
RE: Paper tuning Question
I have always heard that the hole is the best place to set the arrow but I asked this guy and he said it is just a starting place and really means nothing.
Has this just become "standard procedure" over the years?
I think it goes back to shooting flipper rests.
03-04-2004, 07:10 AM
#10
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Paper tuning Question
TFOX, don't assume I don't have tiller on my bows tuned. That's something I'm constantly talking about on this forum.
Every instruction manual with every compound I've ever had has specifically said to set the arrowrest so the arrow passes at the center of that hole. Then you adjust the nock point. It doesn't say the arrow rest is set at a 'starting point'. It says set it there and quit. Make adjustments at the nocking point. You can make some minor adjustments at the rest to finely center it up to the hole once you've got the nock point set.
But setting up a bow with the rest above the hole? Then saying that the hole is only a starting point? Sounds like a tech that makes up his own rules as he goes, because he's too flippin' lazy to set up a bow correctly. Like the guy that set up a bow for me with the nockset 1 1/2" inches below square, 'Because that's where it paper tuned.' Duuuuhhh!
You go and set up a rest with the arrow above the button hole and that presents some problems. Some of them can be amended by changing the bow's tiller. But one cannot be fixed - nock travel. Straight and level nock travel is the hot item right now. A couple of manufacturers are making bows with the grip well below the bow's centerline and the hole dead center, in order to get that. On a bowstring, there is only one exact spot on that string that has a chance of doing that - right dead center in the string. All other points on that string are traveling in an arc as the string comes back to brace. The further from that center point, the more drastic that arc is. That's not a theory, just basic geometry.
Well, you got that guy's opinion. Now you've got mine.
Every instruction manual with every compound I've ever had has specifically said to set the arrowrest so the arrow passes at the center of that hole. Then you adjust the nock point. It doesn't say the arrow rest is set at a 'starting point'. It says set it there and quit. Make adjustments at the nocking point. You can make some minor adjustments at the rest to finely center it up to the hole once you've got the nock point set.
But setting up a bow with the rest above the hole? Then saying that the hole is only a starting point? Sounds like a tech that makes up his own rules as he goes, because he's too flippin' lazy to set up a bow correctly. Like the guy that set up a bow for me with the nockset 1 1/2" inches below square, 'Because that's where it paper tuned.' Duuuuhhh!
You go and set up a rest with the arrow above the button hole and that presents some problems. Some of them can be amended by changing the bow's tiller. But one cannot be fixed - nock travel. Straight and level nock travel is the hot item right now. A couple of manufacturers are making bows with the grip well below the bow's centerline and the hole dead center, in order to get that. On a bowstring, there is only one exact spot on that string that has a chance of doing that - right dead center in the string. All other points on that string are traveling in an arc as the string comes back to brace. The further from that center point, the more drastic that arc is. That's not a theory, just basic geometry.
Well, you got that guy's opinion. Now you've got mine.