RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

That's the part that always get's me :)

I think based on technical concepts, one of the cam systems can be technically proven to be superior to the others, but I get the feeling in the grand scheme of things, the superiority is minute at best, with the winning system nudging out the others by a slim margin in real world application.

That being said, it seems to make sense that the straightest and most level you can launch a fixed head out of a bow, the more forgiving it will be. Some single cams can do this, as can some hybrids and duallys. But not all of each design can, apparently, so it's hard to generalize and say X is better than Y & Z.

I know people on this board whom I totally trust who've reported much easier tuning with fixed blade heads when going from a SC to a Hybrid, and these fellas can shoot lights out. If they noticed a difference, they're must be something to it, no?

While I respect and understand his decision, I wish Pinwheel could elaborate. I also notice that Len has chosen to stay out of the fray... :)

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

I was speaking of groups of arrows, not just one single arrow. Tournaments are shot with multiple arrows. I think most pros would proclaim "matched", tuned arrows to be far more important then the cam configuration.


Each individual archer would know if his groups were noticably better with a particular cam type. A company couldn't pay him enough to go out and lose with an inferior set-up (for very long). I contend they shoot equally well with each type and are very comfortable going with who pays the most. If this is not true, then obviously Mathews has the best cam.

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

Tuned arrows- you bet! :) That's why the HS can be so valuable just FOR the reason that it CAN shoot an arrow in the same hole over and over. You then have a baseline for consistency across a group of arrows.

The individual archer has many variables when switching from one bow to another. Using the same arrows? Is the new bow faster, more power? Is that potentially different power equating well to the spine of the arrow? Same arrow rest? Ok, so lets say the archer likes some new cam for HIS shooting style.

What about another archer that has tried many cam configurations and thinks a different cam style works best for THEIR shooting style? Both will claim that their perfromance improved when switching to their respective new cam styles. Who is right? Potentially both are. They may both be right for their individual styles.

An average bowhunter that has used the same bow for the last 10 years and finally decides to buy ANY new bow on the market will most likely be much happier with the new bow vs. what he had. The average archer doesn't get to try enough different cam styles side by side to deteremine what ultimately works best. And even if they do, it is only what works best for their personal style. They may get to try a few shots of different cams in the store- but no real in-depth tuning to the "nth" degree to eek out every last potential point.

What I like may not be what you like.[&:] That's why manufactures offer 31" bows up to 45" bows. Rather harsh draw cycles for ultimate speed, or round wheels for smooth target shooting. Heavy, light, and everything in between.

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: CBM SC

Matt check your math that comes out to 1 fps for every 3.45 grains
BD

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

ANY bow can be made to shoot arrows over and over into the same hole. I attended a seminar some years ago and watched how a bow with a cam on one end, wheel on the other, and two different limbs of different poundages and lengths, (one recurve and one straight too![:o] ) was tuned to shoot a perfect bullethole and put arrow after arrow into the same hole out of a machine!! Yes, the arrows were matched![8D] ) But to actually feel and shoot the bow----well, that is a whole 'nuther ball game--awful! The same thing applies here---it's all in the geometry and forgiveness for the application, and which bow and cam design will fit a wider variety of people more comfortably and perform at it's best at the same time for everyone.;)


VERY true but only to an extent---yet again depending upon ability also. I have also seen when one bow will actually group excellent when everything is absolutely perfect and the archer is standing on perfectly level ground---but throw a little terrain or put him slightly out of "perfection" and that same bow will perform much differently and is almost impossible at times---downhill shots quickly come to mind.... I know one particular bow brand that shoots great when everything is absolutely"perfect", but one has to work very, very hard to get it there and can actually shoot another brand of bow much better no matter what position or even if that person is seemingly standing on their head---this makes the archer much more comfortable and confident in their equipment, even tho another design may in fact also throw great groups when everything is perfect. When you add this increased archer confidence and equipment forgiveness into the mix, the archer will thus beat out the others every time, even if their abilities are slightly less than others. All about the equipment itself in this scenario. Pros of course will have a much lesser window to work with because of their increased abilities, and I can tell you from experience that they go where the money is--- because being on a Factory Pro Staff that is their job, and one will of course work for those who will pay the most money for as long as they can, they'd be stupid not to if they are trying to make their living shooting a bow.;)

Hope this helps a bit. It's killing me but that's about as far as I can go here, in fact I'm going to say I'm definately done here----tho again I emphasize that I will still stand behind my original statements and opinions in previous posts.;) Good shooting, Pinwheel 12

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

Hey BD ......that's not my quote !

Interesting info. everyone !!

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

This is an interesting discussion and I'm sure there are many factors that make a bow more "shootable" over another, or that makes for tighter groups. I think the jist of what I'm trying to say is, out of all the variables and factors that account for one bow performing better then another, cam style is rather low on the list. For instance, if I was to categorize items in importance, it might go something like this.

1) Archer's ability to repeat their form and technique
2) Degree to which arrows match.
3) Ability of an archer to tune their bow to perfection.
4) Shooting the perfect draw length
5) Archers comfort shooting a particular release
6) ATA of bow along with brace height (forgivenesss factor)
7) Grip design and comfort matching individual's preference.
8) Draw cycle (most importantly the characteristics of the valley and wall)
9) Bow's balance
10) Bow component quality (high quality for consistancy in the equipment)
....
....
....
123) Bow color
124) Type of cam

Well, maybe you could switch 123 and 124 around, but you get my point. ;)]

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

SA,

I think you could have stopped after #2. All else is of very little importance. Afterall, if you can consistently repeat your form you are basically a machine and a machine can shoot them in the same hole regardless of tune. Like rangeball said, Ragsdale won Vegas with a bow that was so out of tune that most would swear you couldn't win your back yard tournament against the neighbors kid, shooting it;)

PS I knew that you would find that troubling;)

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

The 3 track cam is the best going and superior to the one cam or cam and one half.
Yes, Pinwheel, "no explanation is necessary". :D


Sag.

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

I got to shoot a Darton with the CPS a few day's ago at my local pro
shop. I put an old used TM hunter style rest on the bow and adjusted
center shot and nocking point to where both were close. Using my
55/75 Goldtips with 125 gr. points I went outside to shoot. The first thing
I noticed was my arrows were flying beautiful on every shot. This was
a 60 lb. max bow so I asked if he had a 70 lb. max in the same bow.
I set it up in the same manner and got the same result. I have been
reading about the Hybrid's here and had to see it for myself. Well now I
know. Compaired to my Max cam bow I have this CPS Hybrid is much
easier to tune and was fun to shoot.:D