RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

Pinwheel12,

What confuses most of us non-techs (or at lest me) is that the techs don't all agree either and each have their own opinion. If we had the majority of archery "techs' coming out and saying this is far superior, then we would be inclined to believe that way.........IF.......... there weren't that other confusing factor out there. I hear people talk about all the reasons that solos are inferior and why level nock travel is superior etc. etc. but solos keep winning at Vegas and in the major 3-D tournaments. I hear the same old argument about how those guys could win with anything, but the fact of the matter is they can only shoot as good as their equipment. Sure, the best shooters in the world could pick up a bow at a pawn shop spend 15 minutes on it and spank me like a red headed stip child, but they can't do that to the other great shooters in the world. The only way they are beating the other great shooters is to shoot as well as the others shoot, with equipment that shoots as well as the other's shoot. All this just leads me to believe that the solo or what ever cam system that I choose to shoot is more than inherently accurate enough to consistently make perfect shots at normal hunting yardages. While I do see the need for these type of tech conversations when it all gets down to it, it's like talking about who's deer is the deadest. Now taking it out of the hunting realm and focusing purely on the target realm there is possibly more validity to this conversation. But, I still have to ask, if duals and hybrids are so much more accurate and level nock travel is so important, then why aren't the guys that are shooting these systems running away with the target archery wins? For me those are the questions that I need the techs to answer, because I can hear all of the technical explanations, but the common sense side of me just can't buy in if I can't see it put into practical application. JMHO

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

SA- You also have to realize that some of the single cam manufacturers are paying HUGE amounts of cash to people if they win with their bows. If you take a talented pro shooter than can most likely shoot extremely well with any cam configuration and dangle some serious cash in front of them to shoot your brand- what do you think is going to happen?

There are some top national pros in Wisconsin that I talk to, and without mentioning names or brands of bows, I had a draw-drop experience when I heard what the rewards were from that company for winning Vegas and other national tournaments.

Now if that person DOES win- then the manufacturer can advertise like crazy that their bow won this-and-that tournament, and potentially drive more sales.

It is a business, and promotional advertising does seem to work.

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

Ijimmy,
Iam really surprised you couldn't get a decent tune with your hoyt cam.5.
I have a 2003 razortec, and i have to say, it was the easiest bow to tune i ever had.
Running a close second was a kodiak bow logic32 with S-Cam.
Ialso had a darton avalanche which was easy also.

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

I personally think they are going to get beat. If they shoot against a guy (or girl) of equal talent and they are shooting an inferior piece of equipment they are going to get beat.... IMO....The mere fact that some people can shoot all 3 types equally well, says to me that there is not nearly as much difference in the systems as some would have us believe;) I mean ideally that should be the acid test shouldn't it, put the three different types of equipment on a hooter shooter (or Pro with impecable form) and see which system wins out when you are measuring equipment versuses equipment (which is essentially what you are doing when the type of Pros that you have mentioned shoot the different types of equipment). It's hard for me to believe that some young upstart that hasn't secured sponsors yet wouldn't come along shooting the superior form of equipment and blow some peoples doors off until someone offered to pay him money to come shoot thier inferior equipment;) There are some people that at least start out shooting to win and surely there are some seriously talented individuals out there that are realatively unknown.

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

I think the biggest thing the "pros" have all over the rest of us mere mortals is the ability to repeat their shot. I recently read Bernie Pellerite's book, Idiot Proof Archer, and he stated that even a bow way out of whack, illustrated with a hooter shooter, will stack arrows all day long. He also stated that Terry Ragsdale (I think that's who it was) set his record at Vegas with a bow shooting a 5" left tear or something really frigged up like that.

Do the same thing over and over if you're good enough, cam systems don't matter.

Now, for the rest of us, I think they do matter, just not sure to what extent. I believe that most "bowhunters" who pick up their bow a week before season, shoot a few arrows and head for the tree, will shoot better with a good single, due to the solid wall giving them a repeatable anchor. My B-I-L lost deer after deer in the heat of the moment when using a mushy wall 2 cam, most probably due to inconsistent anchor, but in front of a target he had time to hone in. This year, with an '02 high brace extreme solo, he was 3 for 3, all pass throughs, from 10-30 yards. His confidence levels are through the roof, needless to say.

I'm sure a hybrid exhibiting straight and level nock travel will be easier to tune, but if one is aware of potential shortcomings and prepares for them with say proper spine, etc, getting a good tune shouldn't be too much of an issue with any modern bow.

I was really looking forward to Pinwheel's take on things :( Perhaps he can link an article or something from another tech that will enlighten us...

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

Why can he shoot extremely well with any cam configuration? Isn't that an indication that all cam configurations shoot well, and that the key ingredient is the archer's ability, not the cam he is shooting?

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

I had a big post typed up, but I tire of the endless techno-babble…[&:] so basically my point has already been summed up by others…

Translation: The biggest part of the equation is the doofus tugging on the string.[&:]

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

Straightarrow,

I think that's twice now in a matter of a week or so that you and I totally agree on something:D

JeffB,

I no longer give any credence to what you say because you are now afiliated with Bowtech:eek::D

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

Now that's scary! I'm calling my doctor for an appointment as I type. :D

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

A pro with top form is emulating and approaching what a Hooter Shooter can do. Be a machine of ultimate repeatability every time. They (HS's) are fun to play with, I have one in my basement. :)

The Hooter Shooter is not what will determine what "the best" type of equipment or design that a bow/cam configuration is. All the HS does is shoot the bow the same way, every time. It doesn't care if shoots a single cam, dual cam, hybrid, or recurve. It will put the same arrow in the same hole EVERY time, even a severely bent arrow or waaaay outta whack-timed bow.

Then you start to have to consider what is most forgiving and easy to use for the average archer or joe-bowhunter who may not possess that impeccable form.

When you get to the level of talent that some of the top pros possess, it would be VERY difficult for anyone to come in and blow their doors off, no matter what they shoot. Someone with that much archery talent is approaching what a HS can do, and that is perform like a machine with ultimate repeatability. And the HS has proven that a machine can shoot an arrow from ANY BOW into the same hole time after time....

How do you blow the doors off someone that may shoot perfect, or near perfect scores all the time?