RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

Its talent and dedication , or conpulsion that wins tourny's , ask tiger , given equal equipment, or even lessor quality equipment , and when hes on the top of his game hes going to SPANK eveyone . Thats why I think better technology , more forgiveing setups are going to help the "average" archer , of which I consider myself to a geater degree .

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

Bingo. Great post Todd, you too ijimmy.

It's going to be very hard for me to sit back on this one, but as ijimmy has correctly stated, I cannot divulge or get in any deeper without backstabbing others in the industry and seeing as I now work in a high position for a manufacturer honestly that's not what I'm here for---I think it's much wiser to help everyone in the industry whenever possible, that way we all benefit. ;)Good shooting, Pinwheel 12

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

Great post Pinwheel 12!!!;)

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

I think you have to add, "if shot at the same distance" If someone were shooting the Hooter Shooter at varying distances, you would see just how far this machine canl miss the previous hole. If the Hooter Shooter demonstrates one thing, it's that out-of-tune bows can shoot tuned arrows into the same hole, when the distance on each shot is identical. This is a far cry from what is required of an archer who is shooting at varying distances.

As for pro's shooting like a Hooter Shooter, well not all pros shoot to the same level. A lower level pro should benefit from the better system if there was one. Why can't this be demonstrated? If a pro that is not so machine-like, is shooting a slightly larger group, the group should be smaller with the better system. This doesn't seem to be happening. I don't believe anyone has ever demonstrated that a particular cam system is more accurate than another, when both are timed and tuned properly. Everything I've ever read has not been based on shooter results, but on theory. Theory that is not only unproven, but possibly wrong.

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

Kind of makes the lay person (me) wonder what the point of the hooter shooter is. However, it still seems to me like this would be the ultimate proving ground for the equipment to shine, since you have eliminated all other variables, the only variable left to out perform, is the equipment. Eventhough the difference may be negligible at 20 yards surely there would be some difference at say 90 yards if one system were truely superior. JMO

That gets me back to my point. Is that really a consideration? Since, millions of average joe archers are shooting some of the less forgiving types of setups (including myself) equally well or better than they have ever shot anything else (better in my case) and they are shooting baseball size groups at 40 yards (for example) then what do they really stand to gain. Basically, if it doesn't matter what the pros shoot and the average Joe isn't shooting for Vegas type accuracy and probably isn't capable of it (I know I am not). it just seems to me like you would be hearing stories of great shooting ephanies where once guys got a hold of the hybrid cams system they saw the light and immediately began shooting the best groups of their lives etc., unless you subscribe to the "most shooters aren't good enough to tell the difference philosphy", in which case we have determined that it won't make a difference to the pro and it won't make a difference to the average shooter so again it kind of makes you wonder what the point is and if there is really that much difference. Again, this is just the perspective of this individual mediocre archer.

If they are doing that with "inferior" equipment it again raises the question "just how inferior is it"? I have to admit that it all leads me back to the same conclusion, to steal a line from jeffB, "it's the doofus behind the string that matters". Could we be trying to make mountains out of mole hills? Could we be overanalyzing? don't get me wrong i see a place for these conversations and I have learned a great deal from them, I just keep getting led back to these conclusions.

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

The HS can shoot ANY arrow into the same hole, does not matter if it's tuned for the bow or if it is really bent and way out of the spine range.

How? You realize how much time that the pros put into tuning their particular setup? It becomes an extension of their body, and they have become intimately familiar with how it feels and how it's balanced. How would you look at a line of shooters and know that Shooter A's ability is not quite up to Shooter B's ability, but Shooter A has a slightly better cam system so his scores are fairly close to Shooter B?

And you never will. If a machine can be the ultimate in accuracy with ANY bow, how do you propose that it be demostrated which cam system is more accurate in the hands of an archer? An archer of what skill level? At what range? With what arrows? And who decides which arrows are best to use with that bow? Who decides what drawlength or form the archer should have? Maybe the back wall of one cam system lends itself to better shooting to an archer that prefers that vs. a soft wall?

There are just too many variables to PROVE that a one cam system is inherently more accurate and/or better than another. All you can do is find what works best for YOU, your style, you likes, your form, and your wallet. :)

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

There's always that factor involved with archery. That's what makes it fun!:D

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

The HS is the ULTIMATE tool for sorting through arrows! You go through a dozen of your arrows and see which do not impact with the others- it might surprise you..... It's great for checking draw length, drop-away rest timing, cam timing (once you know what you're doing).

The HS does eliminate on very important variable- the "human" factor. And I think THAT is where the differences in cam systems can show up, and why they may be so elusive to "prove".

I know that the HS can shoot a bent arrow out of an out-of-time bow into the same hole every time. Now, if I try and take that same combo and shoot it, I'll be all over the place and my groups will not be anywhere near the size of my groups being shot out of my well-tuned and primed target rig. Why? The HS can shoot my target rig into the same hole, and I can come close to shooting my target rig into the same hole, but I'd be all over the place with the out-of-time bow shooting a bent arrow.

The human factor starts to get into the grey area of "forgiveness" of a certain bow and arrow combo and/or cam system. How much can the archer's form screw up, yet still shoot an arrow rather accurately? How far from being machine-like can the archer get, yet still group well? What may lend itself to better performance for one archer may not lend itself to another archer because of personal likes, form, style, etc...

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

That was my understanding of what the primary purpose of the hooter shooter was, however I took your above qoute to mean that it would infact shoot any arrow into the same hole.

RE: What does a hybrid really do that a high end single cam doesn't ?
 

If all arrows were the EXACT same, they would (should) all hit the same hole.

But we all know that arrows have manufacturing tolerances for spine and straightness. These tolerances start to show up from arrow-to-arrow using the HS. You can go through a dozen arrows and see the difference in impact points (if any) on the target. It's easy to weed out problematic arrows, and makes for much more consistent broadhead flight as well.

BUT, the HS will shoot any GIVEN arrow into the same hole time after time, no matter how out of tune the bow, or even if the arrow is bent.