I haven' t fought it. I' ve wasted a lot of money over the past few years trying the new bows, new arrows and such (nearly enough to buy a new truck!), and that' s why I can safely say, with finality, that it IS junk, at least for me. This stuff demands too much perfection. Your form has to be perfect. Your arrows have to be perfect. Your tune has to be perfect. Your concentration has to be perfect. If any little thing is NOT perfect, you' re screwed.

500 fps might not be a pipe dream, but it' s going to raise the need for perfection to a whole new level. I don' t think a human being would be able to control it and we sure don' t have any carbon arrows that would be up to the challenge. Factor in the tolerance slop with inserts, nocks, heads... It would take a quantum leap for the manufacturers to produce components for arrows that would shoot out of a bow like that. When the time comes and they' ve shrunk their tolerances down to practically nothing, who will be able to afford to buy the stuff, other than Bill Gates?

A whole lot more guys than there are now will be whittling their bows out of tree limbs again.

Like the old saying goes, be careful what you wish for because you just might get it.

I agree and disagree..No all-carbon arrow tech could handle it today. A/C technology could (ACC' s/ACE/X10)

What ever happened to just bowhunting? Being a finger shooter, I' ve felt left out for the past 5 years. And I don' t care what the manufacturers say, a 41 inch bow is not a finger bow. 43" minimum, 44 to 48 better! I think the Reflex Caribou and one Hoyt bow are currently made in this length. But I don' t want to refinance my truck to buy one. [:' (]

Oh come on now guys!

" we sure don' t have any carbon arrows that would be up to the challenge."

Of COURSE we do...you just have to spend MORE for them!!! In fact if ANYTHING will be " up to it" it will be carbon arrows. After 20-50 shots into a 3D target, and then trying to get them back out, aluminum arrows (and to a much lesser extent ACC and the like) will be to bent to get back straight...and even if you COULD get them back....the spine would be wrong anyway. Of course the cedar arrows won' t work without a drop away rest to keep them from starting on fire

We ARE seeing more technology in the carbon arrows. carbon weave arrows (SME Epsilon, and the new PSE arrows for starters) show a lot of promise.
Yes, we may have to put a little more effort into our arrow building than having T-Bone at the archery shop hack our arrows off, then HOPING that the ends are perfectly square. But it can be done...and with todays arrows (well...Carbon Express and PSE will have to make some 500 and maybe 600 series arrows).
Instead of looking at the negative, look at the possitive. With bows THAT efficient, more hunters will be shooting higher KE, and getting more pass throughs even on less than perfect shots (think Moose, Mule Deer, and Elk)

As for the future of bows, I think the trend will simply be to get more efficiency of of bow in general. YES, IBO specs get more attention, but if those specs were everything, each bow maker would only have 1 bow for sale. We will see a bit more along the lines of straight and level nock travel...though GOOD solo cams bows are about as good as any 2 cam or 1.5 cam bow...maybe the CPS is PERFECT...but the rest are NOT. But I don' t think it matters that much. We WILL also see bows trying to get QUIETER. Look at all the sand pockets, Sorbathane, and harmonic hoo-haa we have now!!!.
Simply put, bows will continue to improve on all fronts. Smoothness, quietness, and of course speed...with ALL weights of arrows.

Technology is continually progressing, bottom line. No longer is it neccessary to shoot a 32" bow with a 4" brace height to reach what I call " smoking" speeds. The bows no longer rattle, vibrate, and bounce and feel like you' ve just shot yourself in the hand when reaching these speeds, yet still are capable of producing the energy and speeds we only associated with those " rat traps" of about a decade ago. You can now shoot a heavier arrow at a higher speed with far more kenetic energy than you used to be able to out of far more bows-- no-one is saying that anyone HAS to shoot an ultra light arrow at well over 300+, but the fact remains is that it is now possible with a variety of bows should they so CHOOSE. It is all relative no matter what arrow weight or poundage you desire, the bows will shoot infinitely better nowadays than bows of yesteryear, even tho they may have shorter ATA and brace heights. Don' t believe it? Look at the World Records that have been broken and the top scores being shot in every format nowadays compared to years past. I won a 3D title with a high score of 383 over a decade ago with a 41" ATA bow with a 7.25" Brace height. I can assure you I would not even come close to winning with that same score nowadays! They' ve had to " toughen-up" most target formats with smaller scoring rings, simply because the bows are now so much more accurate and forgiving due to better geometry, materials, and tighter tolerances across the board. And, faster to boot.

And so it will continue, just as it has since before any of us first picked up a bow.

The great thing about it is that we can all individually choose wherever we wish to stop along the line, and enjoy this sport with whatever equipment we want. Some still shoot longbows/recurves, some still shoot 48-50" compounds, some shoot the " rat traps" , some shoot todays' designs, and some of us eagerly look towards the future. Doesn' t matter! What matters is that we are all in the same sport, and are all flinging arrows to begin with and enjoying it. This is what we must pass on to our children and theirs for the future. We really need to stop the segregation and bantering about " mine is better" , and realize that no matter what type of bow or brand we shoot, we are all brothers in the sport regardless. Everything else is just " fluff" . Good shooting, Pinwheel 12

We are all in the same sport? Maybe. Sort of. The segregation is there and with each new advance the gulf widens. Go to a 3D shoot and watch the compounders play. Go to an all trad shoot and watch those guys. Same format, same basic rules. TOTALLY different attitude though. I play both ends of the boat. I' ve shot the highest tech rigs in competition and gone home that evening and worked on a selfbow I was whittling in my backyard.

When was the last time you felt good for hitting the 10 ring on a McKenzie deer at 20 yards? When was the last time you felt pissed because you missed the X ring on that same target?

This stuff is squeezing the fun out of archery. That' s why trads don' t mix with compounders. They are simply NOT a whole lot of fun to be around on the range. I don' t like standing around waiting 5 minutes for some guy to shoot and arrow, then watch him get all torqued because he missed the X. Then having to stand there and watch the same procedure an additional 3 times! Not to mention having to ask if you can shoot through on every other target.

What we need to pass on to our children is a sport to enjoy, not a technical wonderland filled with frustration, with all feeling of artistry and personal achievement wrung out of it and the ' archer' becoming nothing more than a machine operator.

Wow, Art, don' t hold back now![][&:]

I hear what you are saying. But much like everything else in life, " times they are a changin" . I remember when my Mom and Dad hated listening to Elvis, and me when I had to listen to Rap music my children listened to. No, you hate change mpre than anything, a natural human response. I am one of theose 3D guys who gets pi$$ed AT HIMSELF when he misses the X on one of those targets, but I also get on myself if I cannot hit an 8 on a deer with a stickbow. You are correct in that the formats are different depending upon what technology we use, but the game is the same..... I also shoot everything, and can have just as much fun going out and shooting high-tech stuff searching for X' s or 12' s as I can flinging a cedar arrow from a stickbow and being elated if I hit an 8! All in how you approach the game itself, not what you shoot for equipment.

I think you may have been hanging around with too many of those " wannabee" types that get pi$$y at every point they drop.... Yes, the game has become much more serious, but that is due to the money involved, not the technology. I know of a few trad money shoots were the guys are every bit as competitive as the guys who shoot the high-tech stuff. Like I said, it' s all in how you approach the game and what you want out of yourself. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12

While I agree that bow technology will advance onwards, and AMO specs will creep up as IBO specs do, I' m still wondering if there is a place where the emphasis won' t be on pushing IBO specs and light arrows more and more than AMO specs?

If bows/cams are being tweaked to get every bit of performance at IBO specs, do you see a market segment for hunters, which tend to shoot a more middle of the road arrow weight, and are presumably a much larger market than target shooters, where bow/cam design leans more towards getting maximum performance out of a 6-7 grain per pound arrow over the 5 grain per pound currently being pushed?

If I' m a hunter, and two bows I' m considering both have an IBO speed of say 320, but one only flings a 500 grain arrow 250 and the other 270, I' m gonna buy the 270.

I think the general population (including myself until recently) assumes that the higher the IBO spec, the faster the bow will fling a heavier than IBO arrow, which isn' t necessarily true, apparently.

I don' t know, it seems like a marketing niche wide open for a heads up bow company...

Not that much fun for who? You or them? I would assume it was fun for them (as it is for me) or they wouldn' t be doing it. In all honesty it seems like the traditional archers are the ones drawing the lines, not the other way around. Maybe the " compounders" are just more understanding. JMO

That' s just it, Silent... they AREN' T doing it. The greatest majority of bowhunters don' t touch their bows for months at a time and only then it' s only for hunting season. Our club could pass for a traditional only club for 10 months out of the year because it' s a rare event for a compound to be on the range except during tournaments and then from August thru September. If people truly enjoyed shooting, then why do so very many come up with the lame excuse " I don' t have time to shoot." Most people MAKE time to do the things they enjoy, don' t they???

You do have a firm grasp of the obvious.