Lady Arwen

Somebody is probably gonna come slap me for this question, but I' ve always wondered if striving for a perfect paper bullet hole and then group tuning afterward is an exercise in futility. I mean, here you' ve tweaked everything just so to get the perfect tear and then you go group tune and possibly " untweak" it to get a good group tune. I' m sure someone out there has a good answer for me!

Rack-attack

Hi lady,

Gonna be lots of opinions here so let me get mine in first

There is no such thing as a perfect paper hole. Paper will only get you close, and bullet holes do not mean the bow is in tune.

If the object of Archery and shooting was to compare bullet holes than shooting thru paper would be the holy grail of tuning. But the object is to get the best groups and accuracy as possible, so there is groups tuning.

Once you group tune with fieldpoints or broadheads and are getting 3" groups at 50 yds - are you going to be concerned when you fling it thru paper again and it tears 1/4" high and left??

My advise - use the paper to get you close (that is all it will get you)
then spend time tweaking it with other tuning methods. And when you have that bow stacking em and wacken em - throw the paper away

Lady Arwen

Rack:
Your answer was what I expected, but have you ever spent a very long time trying to get a bow to paper tune? We spent quite a while with my husband' s the other day and I know that when we get to the group tune it will have made all that time worth almost nothing depending on what it takes to get it to group. Archery seems to be full of frustrating little things like that. [:@] I' m sort of screwed at this point though, because I could never give it up even if it does drive me crazy from time to time!

Straightarrow

The paradox on an arrow causes all kinds of movement. I' ve never understood why anyone wants to view the paradox of an arrow at a given distance. The only thing important is where the arrows hit. For me, paper tuning is a waste of time. I can get a near bullet hole just by " eyeing" my nock height and centershot on most setups. However, this has never meant my arrow (especially those with broadheads) is going to shoot well.

After my initial eyeballing of the nock point and centershot, all I care about is, do I have the right spine? I bareshaft tune to get the perfect spine. Once I know my draw weight matches my spine, I then group tune. This procedure has always worked very well for me.

Just my opinion...

Pinwheel 12

Lady Arwen--

Paper tuning is nothing more than a tool to get " close" . Perfect bulletholes used to be the rule of thumb 20 years ago, but nowadays tuning is a little more " refined" and thus it has been found by many seasoned Pros that the best tear is between 1/4" and 3/8" tail high left at 11:00. This tear eliminates " knuckleballing" and gives the arrow purpose by ensuring a quick recovery and very consistent paradox.

Group tuning and " supertuning" (creep tune method, twin cam only) are the definitive means of complete and correct tuning. Sadly most never go that far in their process, and almost never at any true distance. (over 50 yds) I have personally found that most " close" group tunings can be made to hit efficiently at 20, 30, 40 and 50, but to get extremely accurate groupings at anything over 50, you really have to be subtle in your approach and small-increment adjustments are key. A quality micro-adjust rest can save you more headaches that you know when it comes to this also! Many times in the past I quickly roughed in a ' close' bullethole, then went out and group tuned, then creep tuned if a twin cam, and then went back in and threw the 11:00 tear as mentioned above. (right handed, compound, release) Nowadays for my personal use I know exactly which tear I am looking for, and so I try to tune to that, and check everything at distance afterwards, making small adjustments if needed. The final assessment must be up to you and your own form and setup configuration tho, this dictates what specific tear your best groups will produce. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12

BobCo19-65

Yes, paper tuning will get you close. But I think that an aweful lot of people forget that group tuning will also depend a lot on your shoting ability.

Rack-attack

I agree with you, but on the other end many people do not realize the effects of poor form on their paper holes. I have seen to many times someone spend hours behind the paper, moving stuff everywhere, not being able to get a tear out. When all along it was hand torque.

BobCo19-65

Rack, I hear you on that. Many years back I had the problem when I put my first wrist strap on the bow, I had it way too tight but didn' t know it (didn' t know how to use it properly). I tried to paper tune and could not get a proper tear. When I took it in, the pro shop owner figured out the problem right away.

walks with a gimp

Shoot your bow with brightly colored fletchings towards a dark colored back ground and watch the flight of the arrow. Better yet would be to have someone video your shooting and then play it back in slow motion. If you have beautiful arrow flight with broadheads,,,, just adjust your sight

benhuntin

I agree totally. I think that is one of the biggest problems that plague most archers. It took me awhile to figure that one out myself. I could go out one day and shoot perfect bullseyes and the next day I would be three inches to the right. Even the slightest change in bow hand pressure/placement can have a big impact from one shot to the next. A slightly out of tune bow can shoot just as well as a perfectly tuned bow most of the time. A tuned bow is just a little more forgiving of shooting errors.
Anyway, to answer the original question. If you are shooting bullet holes in the paper you shouldnt have to adjust very much or at all to group tune.
I usually only get one shot while hunting so if I can climb into my stand in my backyard on any given day and put the first arrow in the bullseye with my broadhead. Thats tuned enough for me. I havent paper tuned or group tuned in a few years. I guess if I shot 3d I might need to.[:-]