lol 80lbs! You friggen gorilla! I shot years back with a guy in our archery club. He was shooting a Jennings Elephant Bow at 90lbs. Our club shot indoors. The owner finally told him,sorry but no more. Your turning my block foundation into powder. Corn; I know you said you don't like the gum bands. But maybe you should look at Rockets Mini Blaster. That's only if you wish for a bigger cut. That head has a 13/4 inch cut and is designed for bows like yours. Honest to god though. For deer,I'll never use anything else.

I have heard these "it didn't open" claims for years in regards to expandable broadheads and I'm sorry but I sincerely believe that almost all of them are BS. I've killed deer with at least 5 different types of expandables. And I've shot at least 5 other types of mech heads besides the ones I've used on deer into various target materials. I have never seen one not open. Unless you glue one shut; let one rust shut; or tie one shut; it almost defies the laws of physics for a fold from the front mech head to not open when shot into a deer.

As for poor penetration, I attribute that in most cases to one of the following causes. And sadly in some cases a really disasterous combination of the two.

1. People who screw on a mech head because they cannot get a field tip and a fixed head to group together. This of course does not fix the fact that their bow is still untuned. And they are therefore probably still getting poor, wobbly, energy robbing, arrow flight despite the fact that their field tips and mech heads are now hitting the same spot. It's like slapping a bandage over a sucking chest wound, the problem is still there you've just covered it up.

2. People using mech heads with insanely large cutting diameters for the power level their bow is generating. Most people have never even shot their bow through a chronograph and therefore can only guess at the speed they are getting from their bow. Guesses that in my experience are almost always "highly optimistic" to say the least. These guesses are usually based on the bows IBO rating which is worthless unless you have a 30 inch draw length; a 70 lb bow and are shooting a minimum weight arrow with absolutely nothing attached to your string. The amount of energy needed to open a mech head isn't the problem IMHO. The problem is that it's hard to push a 1 3/4 or 2 inch wide broadhead through a deer without a lot of kinetic energy and good straight arrow flight.

End result? These folks head for the woods with their 27 inch draw, 60 lb, untuned bows loaded up with a 2 inch wide mech head; whack a deer with their fishtailing under powered arrow; get terrible penetration; and then run back to the internet to loudly proclaim that all mech heads suck.

Classic case of mis-identifying the actual problem.

I think that statement right there is BS.

Matter o' fact, it's hard to read further into anything else you have to say after reading that.

How about you witnessed with your own eyes what has happened to you. Then it happens again, but this time has happened to a few of your friends and you also learn others have experienced the exact same thing.

Then I come along and say what you and your friends experienced is BS. ??? That would be ludicrous... NO, ridiculous...

...Yet that's what you just did.

iSnipe

I was using SWACKERS BH, then a friend gave me some SLICK TRICKS MAGS to try. I told him I would, but not likely I was going to change. I carry both Tricks for deer and Swackers for the super chickens. You need to try fixed and mechinal bh and which one works the best. Just a rambling thoughts of one person.

Those are all very good points todd1700 and probably an accurate assessment of why expandable heads dont penetrate for most, however the fact remains that if people would properly tune their bows they really wouldnt need mechanical heads in the 1st place. Penetration aside, I think the problem remains of mechanical heads opening prematurely, or worse, not all. whenever you have moving parts, those parts can move or fail to move when needed. those little tiny screw that hold the blades on dont inspire much confidence in me either. if someone has confidences in expandables, i say use em and love em, but I personally dont see any advantage over fixed heads, and i dont think you need poke giant holes in deer to spill alot of blood on the ground.

I recently changed to Grim Reaper Broadheads this fall and I have nothing to say about them except for the fact that they leave nasty blood trails and I watched all of the 7 deer that I harvested fall from my tree with the exception of one, which only went 50 yards. I swear by these broadheads, I have never had a problem with them. They are in the same class as rage in my opinion.

Agree with much of whats being said about the penetration issues. Just thought Id add, the reason i picked some up was not because my bow was "out of tune" or my current heads wouldnt fly, its just that I wanted to try something different, and wanted a slightly wider cut, no particular reason, just anticipating the always possible less than perfect hits. Wanted a bit wider since Id already been using some of the smaller on the market. They flew like darts. Didnt even bother trying very wide cut fixed blades because know form many years experience and quite a few "fast" bows, they dont fly well. And a "tuned bow" in most instances isnt gonna permit most to be shooting in the 300 fps or more range and using 1.5+ inch cut fixed blade heads. At least thats what Ive found from my own experimenting through the years and that of others.

The mechanicals work, or open on contact on deer and usually do a good job. Do not go on certain ranches, or certain states, they will not allow them. NONE! Many years ago when mechanicals had gruesome names the hunting pros wanted to try and find if they are worth the extra $$$ I don't remember the numbers but I think it was like 15 pigs shot, only 6 found. After that, the state of Alaska said do not use in this state. Today I still don't know why someone would pay more for bh's when todays fixed bh's are some of the best. Its been said before, if you put the bh through the boiler room, pipes will leak.

Just amazing to me that I have never had a expandable fail to open on a deer or a target. None of the 15 or more people I personally know who bowhunt have ever had one fail to open on a deer or a target. None of the hundreds of members of a local Alabama forum that I have been a member of for the past 12 years have ever reported that an expandable failed to open.

Then you come to certain websites and there are people who claim that it has happened to them over and over again. Sometimes with multiple different brands of heads. And not only that, but happened to practically every other bowhunter they personally know as well.

Hard for me to fathom that a problem so widespread that it could occur that many times in the experience of one man and his friends could on the other hand never occur even once in group of hundreds of other bowhunters.

And that is why I take any claim that a fold from the front head did not open with a huge grain of salt before I put any stock in it.

First question is "Did you find the deer?" Cause if you or they didn't then you have no way of knowing what happened.

Second question is did you check the head to see if the blades would open easily before you shot it? Because if you can easily open them by hand it defies logic that they would not open on a deer.

Third question, was it a used head or had you modified it in any way. I have tied some shut to use them on a practice target and I'm telling you not just any string would hold them shut. It generally took multiple wrappings of something like dental floss to get them to stay shut. Further reason it's hard for me to buy the "they don't open" stuff.

Tell ya what. We can have a test/bet. Lets buy 100 expandable broadheads. I'll pick the brands. We will shoot every one into a broadhead target. For every one that opens you give me 20 dollars. For every one that fails to open I'll give you 100 dollars. Deal? Hope so cause I could use the 2 grand with christmas coming up.

When a Grim Reaper pass through they snap closed when the arrow loosed inertia! It may not have been intintionally designed to do this but it is a part of it's design......

video proof

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZOnwNS_cPw

About a 1:20 into video.

Also this:

http://huntingnet.com/forum/bowhunti...-9-19-doe.html

Distance of over 45 yards. Quatering to me. Complete passthrough. Entrance and exit holes has the "Y" from the blades deploying. When arrow was found the blades were CLOSED.

The Grim Reapers are the only broadheads that I have read enough positive and vitrually no negatives about. I tried them this season after always saying I would NEVER use a mechanical. I LOVE these heads.