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Changing Arrows

Old 06-27-2008, 06:37 PM
  #1  
Spike
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Default Changing Arrows

Guys

I purchased my bow from a bow shop and had it tuned with Full Metal Jackets 400s. My draw is 25.5 but I'm shooting a 27.5 inch arrow. The poundage is 60. The FullMetal Jackets shoots great and group really well. The problem is the other day I bought some Gold Tips Ultralights 400, 27.5. These arrows don't group as well as my FMJs.I shot the bow through paper and it looked like a pretty good hole. I just don'tunderstand why they are not grouping as good as the other arrows.I realize that the Ultralights are a lot lighterthen theFMJs and I was wondering if the speed is too much and my form is just not that great and that would cause them not to group well.I don't know though, could you guys give me some suggestionswhat the problem is and how Icould find a solution.

Thanks for the advice.

Thanks
Jeff
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Old 06-27-2008, 08:15 PM
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Default RE: Changing Arrows

Jeff;

Its really hard to say what the issue could be without seeing it myself. I'll give you a few suggestions.... but most of what I'm going to give you is counter ?'s so I or someone can help you figure it out.

1) What was done to the bow other than just switching arrows? Was the rest moved, centershot rechecked, nock height/rest height adjusted? The FMJs are going to be a fair piece thinner/skinnier than the Gold Tips (I am assuming they are 55/75s? I didn't know GT had "400's"... forgive me).

2) Are you shooting the FMJs side by side with the GTs? Or have you fully switched to just the GTs?

3) Have you done anything other than shooting through the paper? Walk back tuned or group tuned at all with the GTs?

4) Exactly how are your groups "different" or "worse"? Just not as dense/tight? Or are your arrows going high/left/low/right? Flyers? Are you noticing any poor arrow flight (kicking or fishtailing)

5) Have you checked out your vanes to make sure you don't have any clearance problems?

It could be a number of things. Without looking at a spine chart, I think your spine should be okay, espeically at 60#s. Might I ask... why such a long arrow compared to your draw length?
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Old 06-28-2008, 12:29 AM
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Default RE: Changing Arrows

What a confusing matter. I am also wondered by the sentence "I was wondering if the speed is too much and my form is just not that great and that would cause them not to group well".If you find where is the problem give your suggestion to others.
............................
James Chapel

Addiction Recovery Alabama
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Old 06-28-2008, 08:24 AM
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Default RE: Changing Arrows

Your OVERSPINED and A LOT!!! With your set-up, even shooting that longer arrow, you need a 500-550 spine to be optimal. IF you arrow isn't spined close, it's won't fly well. To get the "perfect spine" you need to step up to a 510 FMJ, and put a 125gr tip on there. Gold tip doesn't even make anything that hits the right spine for you set-up according to OT2.

These arrows should work for you.....

PSE RadialXPRO .520 spine
Easton arrows in a .510 or .520 spine
Beman ICS Energy in a .520
Blackhawks in .490 -.505 would be just a little overspined.
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Old 06-28-2008, 12:22 PM
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Default RE: Changing Arrows

ORIGINAL: SwampCollie

Without looking at a spine chart, I think your spine should be okay, espeically at 60#s.
ORIGINAL: OHbowhntr

Your OVERSPINED and A LOT!!! With your set-up, even shooting that longer arrow, you need a 500-550 spine to be optimal. IF you arrow isn't spined close, it's won't fly well. To get the "perfect spine" you need to step up to a 510 FMJ, and put a 125gr tip on there. Gold tip doesn't even make anything that hits the right spine for you set-up according to OT2.

These arrows should work for you.....

PSE RadialXPRO .520 spine
Easton arrows in a .510 or .520 spine
Beman ICS Energy in a .520
Blackhawks in .490 -.505 would be just a little overspined.

In the words of comedian Ron White.... "And I was WRONG....."

A little bit overspined won't hunt you like it would if you were shooting fingers and a traditional bow.... but too much of anything ain't good. That is one thign that OT2 will tell you that spine charts won't.... all the spine chart wants is cam system, point weight, draw weight and total arrow length.... Good spot OH!
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Old 06-28-2008, 01:25 PM
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Default RE: Changing Arrows

True - but a 400 series Eastonarrow (100 gr. tip) in the 27.5 to 29 inch range is about right for a 60# bow. And for a shorter arrow, the 500 series are recommended.

Just shoot the FMJ's. They are one of the best hunting arrows out there anyway. The Gold Tips are a quality arrow as well, and certainly there is something in your setup that is preventing these arrows from grouping. Spine may be part of it. But some setups just like certain arrows. Run with it. . . . .
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Old 06-28-2008, 03:02 PM
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Default RE: Changing Arrows

Everyone thank you for your replies.
SwampCollie:
1. I haven't done anything to it. Just my sight.
2. I was shooting the Gold Tips by themselves and I started to notice
that I wasn't shooting that well with them so I switched to FMJs and shot
them for a while and noticed that they shoot really good. So I switched back to the
Gold Tips and shooting didn't get any better so that's when I posted here.
3. I haven't done anything besides shooting through paper. I did try to make sure that
I don't have fletching contact so I put some baby powder on the arrow and tried to see if it was
making contact and as far as I could tell I'm not but it's really hard to see with the baby powder
I also tried carpenter's chaulk but that stuff gets on your arrows and it's hard to get it off, but I did see some
contact so I moved the nocks and that is when I tried the baby powder. I can try walk back tuning I was just afraid
that the results would not be accurate because of my arrows hitting in different spots. I'm also scared because
I don't have a lot of
experience with bow tuning so I'm afraid that changing something will make my whole bow outta wack and
it won't shoot well with the FMJs.
4. The groups with the Gold Tips aren't as tight as the FMJs and it always seems like there are two or 3 arrows that group together
and one or two arrows that go different ways. The arrows usually go high. Which I don't have this with my FMJs unless I jerk the shot or something.
I can't really tell if they are fishtailing for kicking but sometimes I noticed that some arrows stick out of the target a little sideways.

5. Please see answer 3.

I guess I picked the longer arrow for more Kenetic Energy. This may not seem like a good answer right now but it seemed like a pretty good idea at the time.
Jchapel:
What I meant by that statement was that some people shoot really well at slower speeds but when they increase the speed of there arrow
by going to a lighter arrow mistakes in form stick out more so than if they shot at the slower speeds. I know I'm nowhere near the
300s but some people don't have the gift. I hope that answers your question.
OHBowhntr:
Well that kinda sucks. I don't really wanna buy new arrows being that I just bought these ones. The archery shop helped me select
the arrows. Is there anyway that I can make these arrows work by changing the poundage or weight?
Roskoe:
I strongly agree that if something works don't change it. The problem is that the FMJ are pretty expensive. I bought them at first
thinking I would give them a try and then I found out that they can bend. I really thought they didn't bend, and so far I've broken one, lost one and bent a couple but I am
keeping that solution open.

So is there a way that I can make these Gold Tips work or am I just SOL? If you have anymore questions just let me know.
Thanks again.
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Old 06-28-2008, 03:59 PM
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Default RE: Changing Arrows

Are you shooting a whisker biscuit rest? The correct size biscuit for the slim Axis FMJ is going to be too tight for the fatter Gold Tip. It could also be a problem with a drop away; where the Gold Tip sits higher on the bow shelf and creates a tuning problem?

I have broken an AxisFMJ as well. A big tom turkey decided that an arrow sticking out his backside about 20" was intolerable, and bent/broke the shaft thrashing around. I'm surethis amount of forcewould have broken any carbon shaft as well.

You could also try the regular Nano Axis if a toughall carbon arrow is desired. I shoot both, and they fly just like the Axis FMJ. About a dollar an arrow cheaper too.

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Old 06-28-2008, 05:21 PM
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Spike
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Default RE: Changing Arrows

Roskoe

How could I check for that?
Sorry I for got to say I have a Trophy Taker Drop Away(Pronghorn).

Thanks
Jeff
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Old 06-28-2008, 10:11 PM
  #10  
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Default RE: Changing Arrows

ORIGINAL: pizzitem
.......

OHBowhntr:
Well that kinda sucks. I don't really wanna buy new arrows being that I just bought these ones. The archery shop helped me select
the arrows. Is there anyway that I can make these arrows work by changing the poundage or weight?
........

Thanks again.
You could go with a REALLY heavy point, a 200gr tip would make the spine close, but that would make your FOC so far out of whack it'd never work well. Unfortunately, the best bet is to get something in the .500-540 range, tipped with a 125gr. point for optimum spine and FOC. As was said above, overspining is not always such a bad thing, but a .400 flew off the charts according to OT2.
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