What arrow mass will achieve tha maximum momentum?
05-19-2008 | 03:17 PM
#72
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,127
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
RE: What arrow mass will achieve tha maximum momentum?
The practical application of all this is that you want a pass through on a given animal. Once you have enough horsepower to accomplish this task, anything much above it is a waste of energy. So use an arrow that has features (one of which is weight)that will facilitatea reliable pass through. Much beyond that, increasing the arrow weight is going tosacrifice trajectory.
For me, with my setup, that arrow weight is in the low to mid 400 grain level. I personally like the feel of shooting 500 grain plus arrows, but probably won't hunt with them unless I find myself trying to arrow something like a bison. Even then, I think the small diameter slick shaft of an Easton Axis FMJ might stillequal the penetration ofa heavier but fatter Carbon Express Terminator.
For me, with my setup, that arrow weight is in the low to mid 400 grain level. I personally like the feel of shooting 500 grain plus arrows, but probably won't hunt with them unless I find myself trying to arrow something like a bison. Even then, I think the small diameter slick shaft of an Easton Axis FMJ might stillequal the penetration ofa heavier but fatter Carbon Express Terminator.
05-19-2008 | 03:23 PM
#73
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: What arrow mass will achieve tha maximum momentum?
ORIGINAL: Sylvan
They all explain basicall the same thing I've been trying to explain here. I'll give up on you though bc, I don't think you have the kind of attitude that will allow you to learn anything.Take some time and learn and spend less time telling others they don't understand. I'll bet thepublishers ofthe information I've presented here would love to be enlightened by you. I believe one of the sights has email so give it a shot and let us all know how you made out. LOL, they deserve a good laugh!
They all explain basicall the same thing I've been trying to explain here. I'll give up on you though bc, I don't think you have the kind of attitude that will allow you to learn anything.Take some time and learn and spend less time telling others they don't understand. I'll bet thepublishers ofthe information I've presented here would love to be enlightened by you. I believe one of the sights has email so give it a shot and let us all know how you made out. LOL, they deserve a good laugh!
To be honest with you, I have wrote many peer reviewed papers, but none of them have I done research on bow efficiency. Mine are generally physics of light. Until I actually sat down and did the math, and research, I wouldn't dare call someone on thier work, or call them to give them a laugh. But thats them, not you. I just think its rather lame that you actually attempted to steal someone else's work with a copy and paste.
They could be right, but off the cuff, I know from my chrono's of longbows/recurves of various wieght arrows, I have alot of wasted efficiency with fast arrows. This could be my mass of my limbs. Friction of arrow with my limibs, or even friction of the arrow contact with its rest due to heavier weight. Thats off the cuff, I sure wouldn't want to put equations on here and act like this is my work.
05-19-2008 | 03:26 PM
#74
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: What arrow mass will achieve tha maximum momentum?
ORIGINAL: Sylvan
The bow energy efficiency F = Ea/Et thus becomes:
F = (mS2/2)/((m + v)S2/2) = m/(m + v)
If you understand the math you will recognize easily that as m increases so does F. If you disagree with that you don't understand the math, if you disagree with the equation itself, you're not arguing with me your arguing with the established physics you claim to understand.
The bow energy efficiency F = Ea/Et thus becomes:
F = (mS2/2)/((m + v)S2/2) = m/(m + v)
If you understand the math you will recognize easily that as m increases so does F. If you disagree with that you don't understand the math, if you disagree with the equation itself, you're not arguing with me your arguing with the established physics you claim to understand.
Having trouble with keeping up with post edits.
05-19-2008 | 03:34 PM
#75
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: What arrow mass will achieve tha maximum momentum?
ORIGINAL: bigcountry
Sure, but as m goes up, v goes down. V can't stay constant. You didn't think that did ya?
Having trouble with keeping up with post edits.
ORIGINAL: Sylvan
The bow energy efficiency F = Ea/Et thus becomes:
F = (mS2/2)/((m + v)S2/2) = m/(m + v)
If you understand the math you will recognize easily that as m increases so does F. If you disagree with that you don't understand the math, if you disagree with the equation itself, you're not arguing with me your arguing with the established physics you claim to understand.
The bow energy efficiency F = Ea/Et thus becomes:
F = (mS2/2)/((m + v)S2/2) = m/(m + v)
If you understand the math you will recognize easily that as m increases so does F. If you disagree with that you don't understand the math, if you disagree with the equation itself, you're not arguing with me your arguing with the established physics you claim to understand.
Having trouble with keeping up with post edits.
05-19-2008 | 03:52 PM
#76
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,435
Likes: 0
From: Upstate New York
RE: What arrow mass will achieve tha maximum momentum?
Check this out everyone, BC can't read the line that follows the equation...
"What makes this useful is that it is found by experiment that for a given bow the value of the virtual mass is a constant over a sensible range of arrow mass."
That's not me saying that BC, that's the experts, go argue with them...
He also claims I tried to claim credit for what I posted on virtual mass when I clearly stated thatit was an excerpt. I guess you don't understand what excerpt means bc. Do I have to teach you english too?
You bore me bc, go find someone else to taunt.
"What makes this useful is that it is found by experiment that for a given bow the value of the virtual mass is a constant over a sensible range of arrow mass."
That's not me saying that BC, that's the experts, go argue with them...
He also claims I tried to claim credit for what I posted on virtual mass when I clearly stated thatit was an excerpt. I guess you don't understand what excerpt means bc. Do I have to teach you english too?
You bore me bc, go find someone else to taunt.
05-19-2008 | 04:07 PM
#77
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: What arrow mass will achieve tha maximum momentum?
ORIGINAL: Sylvan
Check this out everyone, BC can't read the line that follows the equation...
"What makes this useful is that it is found by experiment that for a given bow the value of the virtual mass is a constant over a sensible range of arrow mass."
That's not me saying that BC, that's the experts, go argue with them...
He also claims I tried to claim credit for what I posted on virtual mass when I clearly stated thatit was an excerpt. I guess you don't understand what excerpt means bc. Do I have to teach you english too?
You bore me bc, go find someone else to taunt.
Check this out everyone, BC can't read the line that follows the equation...
"What makes this useful is that it is found by experiment that for a given bow the value of the virtual mass is a constant over a sensible range of arrow mass."
That's not me saying that BC, that's the experts, go argue with them...
He also claims I tried to claim credit for what I posted on virtual mass when I clearly stated thatit was an excerpt. I guess you don't understand what excerpt means bc. Do I have to teach you english too?
You bore me bc, go find someone else to taunt.
Your the one who quoted the equation and asked me, I answered. I am dead on correct.
05-19-2008 | 06:43 PM
#78
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,435
Likes: 0
From: Upstate New York
RE: What arrow mass will achieve tha maximum momentum?
Lets go back over your F equation. What again is your point of this post if velocity is static again? Teach us. and why would we care if velocity stayed constant. That doesn't work in the really real world. He's on the ropes.
Your the one who quoted the equation and asked me, I answered. I am dead on correct.
Your the one who quoted the equation and asked me, I answered. I am dead on correct.
You kill me bc. You claim to be so smart with your peer reviewed papers and all but you don't even understand the fundamentals of whats been presented.Even after a detailed explanation was placed right in front of youalong with severallinks to other sights explaining as well, your posts clearly demonstrate you don't understand.
Go back to post#68 and read the excerptslowly and try harder. You will discover that the v in the equation represents virtual mass not velocity. For heaven's sake, bc, it's virtual mass that remains constant,not velocity. It's the point of the whole explanation.It should have been obviousyet you missed it completely. Pretty amateurish error for a supposed peer reviewed engineer.I suppose you think the F stands for force too! LOL, then you gleefully reported to all that Iapparently thought velocity would remain constant. Now that's funny right there. Clueless and proud of it is not a good way to go through life. You're embarraing yourself and you don't even realize it.
The construct of a constant virtual mass and the idea that eff increases with arrow masshave been well understood and well established for a long time. I'm not presenting anything new here. The equations speak for themselves. Go back and learn what they have to say.
"...dead on correct"? LOL, you'rerelly funny bc. I take back the boring comment. You are at least entertaining.
05-19-2008 | 09:29 PM
#79
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: What arrow mass will achieve tha maximum momentum?
ORIGINAL: Sylvan
My equation? That equation was developed before I was even a gleam in my fathers eye.
You kill me bc. You claim to be so smart with your peer reviewed papers and all but you don't even understand the fundamentals of whats been presented.Even after a detailed explanation was placed right in front of youalong with severallinks to other sights explaining as well, your posts clearly demonstrate you don't understand.
Go back to post#68 and read the excerptslowly and try harder. You will discover that the v in the equation represents virtual mass not velocity. For heaven's sake, bc, it's virtual mass that remains constant,not velocity. It's the point of the whole explanation.It should have been obviousyet you missed it completely. Pretty amateurish error for a supposed peer reviewed engineer.I suppose you think the F stands for force too! LOL, then you gleefully reported to all that Iapparently thought velocity would remain constant. Now that's funny right there. Clueless and proud of it is not a good way to go through life. You're embarraing yourself and you don't even realize it.
The construct of a constant virtual mass and the idea that eff increases with arrow masshave been well understood and well established for a long time. I'm not presenting anything new here. The equations speak for themselves. Go back and learn what they have to say.
"...dead on correct"? LOL, you'rerelly funny bc. I take back the boring comment. You are at least entertaining.
Lets go back over your F equation. What again is your point of this post if velocity is static again? Teach us. and why would we care if velocity stayed constant. That doesn't work in the really real world. He's on the ropes.
Your the one who quoted the equation and asked me, I answered. I am dead on correct.
Your the one who quoted the equation and asked me, I answered. I am dead on correct.
You kill me bc. You claim to be so smart with your peer reviewed papers and all but you don't even understand the fundamentals of whats been presented.Even after a detailed explanation was placed right in front of youalong with severallinks to other sights explaining as well, your posts clearly demonstrate you don't understand.
Go back to post#68 and read the excerptslowly and try harder. You will discover that the v in the equation represents virtual mass not velocity. For heaven's sake, bc, it's virtual mass that remains constant,not velocity. It's the point of the whole explanation.It should have been obviousyet you missed it completely. Pretty amateurish error for a supposed peer reviewed engineer.I suppose you think the F stands for force too! LOL, then you gleefully reported to all that Iapparently thought velocity would remain constant. Now that's funny right there. Clueless and proud of it is not a good way to go through life. You're embarraing yourself and you don't even realize it.
The construct of a constant virtual mass and the idea that eff increases with arrow masshave been well understood and well established for a long time. I'm not presenting anything new here. The equations speak for themselves. Go back and learn what they have to say.
"...dead on correct"? LOL, you'rerelly funny bc. I take back the boring comment. You are at least entertaining.
To be honest, after I saw the plagerism, I really didn't take much of what you said too seriously. And sure didn't bother to work thru the algebra. So again, you are right, I didn't bother to look thru it.
05-20-2008 | 04:58 AM
#80
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,435
Likes: 0
From: Upstate New York
RE: What arrow mass will achieve tha maximum momentum?
To be honest, after I saw the plagerism...
"O.K., here's an excerpt that explains why ke goes up with arrow mass. It's not my opinion, its archery mechanics. Look it up for yourselves."
I called what I posted an "excerpt". What do you thinkit means to call something an excerpt? I said that "it's not my opinion" its archery mechanics" and I clearly separated the excerpt from my words. It was obvious to any thinking person thatI wan't plagierising. It was obviously a cut and past. I made it obvious so everyone would know it wasn't my work. Guess you missed that too, just like you missed the entire point of the post.
Oh yea, and right before the cut and paste I said...
"You candisagree all you want but don't argue with me. I'mmerely giving you the established physics regarding this. Argue with the scientists and engineers that havedeveloped the knowledge over the last 400 years or so.
O.K. you got me, I'll admit it. I'm a 400 year old plagiarist.
Now can we get back on topic and suspend the sniping?It such a waste of everbody's time!
