What arrow mass will achieve tha maximum momentum?
05-20-2008 | 08:37 PM
#91
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,435
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From: Upstate New York
RE: What arrow mass will achieve tha maximum momentum?
I think on any bow if you do enough testing you will find a place where a heavier arrow will fail to increase KE.
05-20-2008 | 08:37 PM
#92
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,367
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From:
RE: What arrow mass will achieve tha maximum momentum?
You refuse to believe facts and figures posted by bigbulls, ArthurP, and I. I'm not sure how long bigbulls has played this game, but I've played it for 40 years and I know AP has been at it longer than I.
Ever talk to Mr. Loiselle? Maybe you should
Then you might notbelieve him either[8D]
I guess you must be right and our chronos and calculators are wrong
No use in arguing with someone who won't even believe hard facts from 2 seperate sources. I said most of the times what you are saying is True but Not ALWAYS
Can't change the facts!
Dan
Ever talk to Mr. Loiselle? Maybe you should
Then you might notbelieve him either[8D]I guess you must be right and our chronos and calculators are wrong
No use in arguing with someone who won't even believe hard facts from 2 seperate sources. I said most of the times what you are saying is True but Not ALWAYS
Can't change the facts!
Dan
05-20-2008 | 08:40 PM
#93
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,367
Likes: 0
From:
RE: What arrow mass will achieve tha maximum momentum?
ORIGINAL: Roskoe
OK - You're right . . . I'm going to start shooting a 2,000 grain arrow at 60 fps. Sylvan - you the man! Why don't you take your entire life savings and start producing 2,000 grain arrows? We will all buy them, now that we are enlightened.
OK - You're right . . . I'm going to start shooting a 2,000 grain arrow at 60 fps. Sylvan - you the man! Why don't you take your entire life savings and start producing 2,000 grain arrows? We will all buy them, now that we are enlightened.
I'll get in line!
Dan
05-20-2008 | 08:53 PM
#94
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,435
Likes: 0
From: Upstate New York
RE: What arrow mass will achieve tha maximum momentum?
ORIGINAL: MeanV2
You refuse to believe facts and figures posted by bigbulls, ArthurP, and I. I'm not sure how long bigbulls has played this game, but I've played it for 40 years and I know AP has been at it longer than I.
Ever talk to Mr. Loiselle? Maybe you shouldThen you might notbelieve him either[8D]
I guess you must be right and our chronos and calculators are wrong
No use in arguing with someone who won't even believe hard facts from 2 seperate sources. I said most of the times what you are saying is True but Not ALWAYS
Can't change the facts!
Dan
You refuse to believe facts and figures posted by bigbulls, ArthurP, and I. I'm not sure how long bigbulls has played this game, but I've played it for 40 years and I know AP has been at it longer than I.
Ever talk to Mr. Loiselle? Maybe you should
Then you might notbelieve him either[8D]I guess you must be right and our chronos and calculators are wrong
No use in arguing with someone who won't even believe hard facts from 2 seperate sources. I said most of the times what you are saying is True but Not ALWAYS
Can't change the facts!
Dan
Again, you said you can always find the point where ke fails to go up with arrow mass. I gave you 2 professional reports containing extesive testing and both of them show you are wrong. How come?
Like I said, because you and bigbulls and ArthurP say so is a pretty lame arguement.
05-20-2008 | 08:54 PM
#95
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
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RE: What arrow mass will achieve tha maximum momentum?
I just gave you 2 bow reports where extensive professional testing was done. Far more than you and bigbulls do on many more arrow weights and over a larger span of weights too. They didn't find that place! In every single measurement they show increasing ke as arrow weight increases. How do you explain that? Did you even bother to look at the reports?
They don't use any more sophisticated equipment that what is available to nearly any pro shop. BTW, I do have bow force mapping equipment at my shop. I have the capability to produce the exact same charts and graph as the magazines do. The manufacturers, on the other hand, spend much more money of testing equipment than any magazine or pro shop would be willing to spend. For obvious reasons.
I'll tell you what. Tomorow, if I have the time,I will build a couple of arrows as absolutely heavy as I can. At least 1000 grains. I knowI have some fiberglass fishing shafts. If I can find an aluminum shaft that they will fit snugly into i will glue them in and build an arrow that should weigh a few thousand grains. I'll shoot them through the same chrono from the same bow and see what happens.
I am curious to see just exactly what number pops up as I have never shot an arrow that comes remotely close to being this heavy. I'll see whatI can come up with. I'll even take my general into work with me and shoot all arrows through it as well.
05-20-2008 | 09:10 PM
#96
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 807
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From: Saint Paul, MN
RE: What arrow mass will achieve tha maximum momentum?
ORIGINAL: bigbulls
In the reports the you site the experts conducting the tests are using industry standard testing procedures. They are not, in any way, attempting to find the maximum efficiency of a particular bow through a wide enough range or arrow weights. Each bow will have its own range of efficiency and no two bows will be exactly the same. Even the same model of bow will be slightly different.
They don't use any more sophisticated equipment that what is available to nearly any pro shop. BTW, I do have bow force mapping equipment at my shop. I have the capability to produce the exact same charts and graph as the magazines do. The manufacturers, on the other hand, spend much more money of testing equipment than any magazine or pro shop would be willing to spend. For obvious reasons.
I'll tell you what. Tomorow, if I have the time, I will build a couple of arrows as absolutely heavy as I can. At least 1000 grains. I know I have some fiberglass fishing shafts. If I can find an aluminum shaft that they will fit snugly into i will glue them in and build an arrow that should weigh a few thousand grains. I'll shoot them through the same chrono from the same bow and see what happens.
I am curious to see just exactly what number pops up as I have never shot an arrow that comes remotely close to being this heavy. I'll see what I can come up with. I'll even take my general into work with me and shoot all arrows through it as well.
I just gave you 2 bow reports where extensive professional testing was done. Far more than you and bigbulls do on many more arrow weights and over a larger span of weights too. They didn't find that place! In every single measurement they show increasing ke as arrow weight increases. How do you explain that? Did you even bother to look at the reports?
They don't use any more sophisticated equipment that what is available to nearly any pro shop. BTW, I do have bow force mapping equipment at my shop. I have the capability to produce the exact same charts and graph as the magazines do. The manufacturers, on the other hand, spend much more money of testing equipment than any magazine or pro shop would be willing to spend. For obvious reasons.
I'll tell you what. Tomorow, if I have the time, I will build a couple of arrows as absolutely heavy as I can. At least 1000 grains. I know I have some fiberglass fishing shafts. If I can find an aluminum shaft that they will fit snugly into i will glue them in and build an arrow that should weigh a few thousand grains. I'll shoot them through the same chrono from the same bow and see what happens.
I am curious to see just exactly what number pops up as I have never shot an arrow that comes remotely close to being this heavy. I'll see what I can come up with. I'll even take my general into work with me and shoot all arrows through it as well.
05-20-2008 | 09:15 PM
#97
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,435
Likes: 0
From: Upstate New York
RE: What arrow mass will achieve tha maximum momentum?
In the reports the you site theexperts conducting the testsare using industry standard testing procedures. They are not, in any way, attempting to find the maximum efficiency of a particular bow through a wide enough range or arrow weights.
When you guys say that ke backs off, you are actuallyclaiming that a bow will shoot 2 arrows of different weights with the same ke and efficiency. That's a pretty incredible claim. Why don't you go to Bow Hunter and see if they will publish your findings? The news that too heavy an arrow will lower kinetic energy will interest them immensly.
05-20-2008 | 09:19 PM
#98
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,634
Likes: 0
From: HENDERSON KY USA
RE: What arrow mass will achieve tha maximum momentum?
ORIGINAL: bigbulls
I'll tell you what. Tomorow, if I have the time,I will build a couple of arrows as absolutely heavy as I can. At least 1000 grains. I knowI have some fiberglass fishing shafts. If I can find an aluminum shaft that they will fit snugly into i will glue them in and build an arrow that should weigh a few thousand grains. I'll shoot them through the same chrono from the same bow and see what happens.
I am curious to see just exactly what number pops up as I have never shot an arrow that comes remotely close to being this heavy. I'll see whatI can come up with. I'll even take my general into work with me and shoot all arrows through it as well.
I'll tell you what. Tomorow, if I have the time,I will build a couple of arrows as absolutely heavy as I can. At least 1000 grains. I knowI have some fiberglass fishing shafts. If I can find an aluminum shaft that they will fit snugly into i will glue them in and build an arrow that should weigh a few thousand grains. I'll shoot them through the same chrono from the same bow and see what happens.
I am curious to see just exactly what number pops up as I have never shot an arrow that comes remotely close to being this heavy. I'll see whatI can come up with. I'll even take my general into work with me and shoot all arrows through it as well.
Spine issues will most likely give you false findings,spine must be on for an arrow to absorbthe maximum amount of energy to give you accurate findings.
Tune makes this kind of research very difficult.
05-20-2008 | 09:25 PM
#99
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,435
Likes: 0
From: Upstate New York
RE: What arrow mass will achieve tha maximum momentum?
Tune makes this kind of research very difficult.
05-20-2008 | 09:30 PM
#100
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,634
Likes: 0
From: HENDERSON KY USA
RE: What arrow mass will achieve tha maximum momentum?
To be quite honest,I have NEVER seen the kind of results that MeanV has found and inTHEORY it can't,atleast in normal ranges.I do believe that once you reach a certain arrow weight,the ke will start to drop but it is well above the 650 grain mark imo.
BUT,it makes sense to me that if it is possible for a lighter arrow to absorb more of the bows potential energy(than normal)then ke will go up.For no other reason than speedhas increased more than it should.
So, I would be interseted in seeing some testing of the arrows in question.It would also make sense that the heavier arrow of the same material would show more normal findings and ke will not drop off from the 400 gr arrow to the 500 gr arrow.
BUT,it makes sense to me that if it is possible for a lighter arrow to absorb more of the bows potential energy(than normal)then ke will go up.For no other reason than speedhas increased more than it should.
So, I would be interseted in seeing some testing of the arrows in question.It would also make sense that the heavier arrow of the same material would show more normal findings and ke will not drop off from the 400 gr arrow to the 500 gr arrow.