Let the bow tell you what it likes.
11-08-2002, 03:12 PM
#1
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Klamath Falls, Or
Posts: 300
Let the bow tell you what it likes.
Thanks Pinwheel12 and JeffB
Not too long ago I posted results of shooting different arrow configurations through my bow. Here is my setup.
Bow
2001 Hoyt Vortec
Saber cam cut to 29” draw
70# draw weight
Winners choice string and cables
Trophy Taker fall away
String loop
Arrow
Easton ACC 339 cut to 27.75”
Eze crest
(3) 4” duravanes
This shaft gave me the best paper tear and arrow groups using a hooter shooter. Today I tried those arrows at range to see how they are going to group. Here are the 40 yd results.
The upper group is with 100g tips and the lower group with 125g tip. I got similar type results at every distance past 30 yd. Under 30yd the groups were very similar. At longer distances the bow just seems to like the 125g tip better. With the125g tip the arrow has right around 12% foc.
Thanks to everyone for the help and suggestions.
Andrew
>>>----Andrew---->
Not too long ago I posted results of shooting different arrow configurations through my bow. Here is my setup.
Bow
2001 Hoyt Vortec
Saber cam cut to 29” draw
70# draw weight
Winners choice string and cables
Trophy Taker fall away
String loop
Arrow
Easton ACC 339 cut to 27.75”
Eze crest
(3) 4” duravanes
This shaft gave me the best paper tear and arrow groups using a hooter shooter. Today I tried those arrows at range to see how they are going to group. Here are the 40 yd results.
The upper group is with 100g tips and the lower group with 125g tip. I got similar type results at every distance past 30 yd. Under 30yd the groups were very similar. At longer distances the bow just seems to like the 125g tip better. With the125g tip the arrow has right around 12% foc.
Thanks to everyone for the help and suggestions.
Andrew
>>>----Andrew---->
11-08-2002, 03:25 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,994
RE: Let the bow tell you what it likes.
Are there 3 arrows in that lower group? Many, what a difference.
Are those groups all the result of a paper tuned bullet hole? Did you papertune with both the 100 and 125 grain head then shoot for groups, or just one of them? Which one?
I'd like to hear more about your experience if possible...
Are those groups all the result of a paper tuned bullet hole? Did you papertune with both the 100 and 125 grain head then shoot for groups, or just one of them? Which one?
I'd like to hear more about your experience if possible...
11-08-2002, 08:44 PM
#4
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vernon Hills IL USA
Posts: 382
RE: Let the bow tell you what it likes.
That is very interesting. I'll have to do some longer range shooting with different point weights. tm told me about that some time ago, but I never actually got around to playing with it. Good post!!!
11-08-2002, 09:50 PM
#5
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Klamath Falls, Or
Posts: 300
RE: Let the bow tell you what it likes.
Rangeball
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Are there 3 arrows in that lower group?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
yes
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Are those groups all the result of a paper tuned bullet hole? Did you papertune with both the 100 and 125 grain head then shoot for groups, or just one of them? Which one? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
with the 100g tip it shoots a perfect bullet hole. with the 125g tip I get a slight tail high and left tare. I did a bunch of testing with different shafts to come up with this configuration. I will try to dig the thread up and post a link to it.
Rack-attack
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> that is a huge diff for 25 grns. With my set up 25 grns heavy at 30 yds equals about 1/2" lower.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I shot the group with the 125g tips at the bottom center target. There wasn't much of a difference in impact point between the two heads. I haven't sighted the bow in yet, I have just been tuning it.
Buckfevr
Pinwheel12 told me to see how the shafts grouped at range some when I started this project. I just haven't had the time to do it until today. I was amazed by the difference. Just for grins I swapped the 100 and 125g tips around and got very simmilar results with the tips on the different arrows.
>>>----Andrew---->
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Are there 3 arrows in that lower group?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
yes
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Are those groups all the result of a paper tuned bullet hole? Did you papertune with both the 100 and 125 grain head then shoot for groups, or just one of them? Which one? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
with the 100g tip it shoots a perfect bullet hole. with the 125g tip I get a slight tail high and left tare. I did a bunch of testing with different shafts to come up with this configuration. I will try to dig the thread up and post a link to it.
Rack-attack
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> that is a huge diff for 25 grns. With my set up 25 grns heavy at 30 yds equals about 1/2" lower.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I shot the group with the 125g tips at the bottom center target. There wasn't much of a difference in impact point between the two heads. I haven't sighted the bow in yet, I have just been tuning it.
Buckfevr
Pinwheel12 told me to see how the shafts grouped at range some when I started this project. I just haven't had the time to do it until today. I was amazed by the difference. Just for grins I swapped the 100 and 125g tips around and got very simmilar results with the tips on the different arrows.
>>>----Andrew---->
11-11-2002, 01:08 PM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 3,058
RE: Let the bow tell you what it likes.
Excellent! Thanx for posting the pics.
Now I would like to make a couple of comments. You can see from this example how important FOC can be as well.
In addition, you did not mention in your original post your arrows were dipped and crested (or wrapped with the “fake” stuff). This will automatically stiffen your arrow shaft (as it adds weigh to the back end over a large area), and will affect FOC, and is probably the reason that the 125’s group better.
Years ago when I shot vanes and D&C’ed my arrows I found that experimentation was key to getting the best groups. Depending on how many coats of dip, and how much crest, and how long the coat was could drastically affect arrow flight. I remember one set-up in particular: My first HCA Machined Supreme. 70 pounds 29” draw length. I was shooting 3-49’s with a white dip, and flex fletch vanes. I was using half-outs so I had extra weight up front….75’s 85’s and 90’s no go…125’s no go…100’s were the only thing that would group that well past 20 yards. In addition one time I accidentally triple dipped some shafts, and only double dipped some others…talk about some screwy groups…Interesting thing though is once I went to non-dipped 3-49’s it would shoot anything I put through it…75’2, 85’s, 90’s ,125’s..didn’t matter with the D&C I just messed with the spine and FOC enough to where the set-up was picky.
The new “fletch wrap” things will also affect the spine and FOC in a similar way, as it’s the weight and where it is along the shaft that causes the variance.
Great shooting BTW. I love when I’m in the groove and can stack em like that at 40! (and wish it was more often!)
Now I would like to make a couple of comments. You can see from this example how important FOC can be as well.
In addition, you did not mention in your original post your arrows were dipped and crested (or wrapped with the “fake” stuff). This will automatically stiffen your arrow shaft (as it adds weigh to the back end over a large area), and will affect FOC, and is probably the reason that the 125’s group better.
Years ago when I shot vanes and D&C’ed my arrows I found that experimentation was key to getting the best groups. Depending on how many coats of dip, and how much crest, and how long the coat was could drastically affect arrow flight. I remember one set-up in particular: My first HCA Machined Supreme. 70 pounds 29” draw length. I was shooting 3-49’s with a white dip, and flex fletch vanes. I was using half-outs so I had extra weight up front….75’s 85’s and 90’s no go…125’s no go…100’s were the only thing that would group that well past 20 yards. In addition one time I accidentally triple dipped some shafts, and only double dipped some others…talk about some screwy groups…Interesting thing though is once I went to non-dipped 3-49’s it would shoot anything I put through it…75’2, 85’s, 90’s ,125’s..didn’t matter with the D&C I just messed with the spine and FOC enough to where the set-up was picky.
The new “fletch wrap” things will also affect the spine and FOC in a similar way, as it’s the weight and where it is along the shaft that causes the variance.
Great shooting BTW. I love when I’m in the groove and can stack em like that at 40! (and wish it was more often!)
11-11-2002, 08:41 PM
#9
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Walker LA USA
Posts: 443
RE: Let the bow tell you what it likes.
Do you think that little difference in foc is the reason?Or maybe the point weight affecting the arrow spine? I've read some comments from Bob Ragsdale,he does'nt put much if any emphasis on FOC.I think the quote was something like" my son is a champion archer and he does'nt worry about foc".Food for thought.I think that is why the paper tune changed,the extra point weight was affecting the arrow spine.
Billy
WHACKEM N STACKEM
Edited by - CAJUNBOWHNTR on 11/11/2002 21:43:39
Billy
WHACKEM N STACKEM
Edited by - CAJUNBOWHNTR on 11/11/2002 21:43:39
11-12-2002, 11:11 AM
#10
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Klamath Falls, Or
Posts: 300
RE: Let the bow tell you what it likes.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Great shooting BTW. I love when I’m in the groove and can stack em like that at 40! (and wish it was more often!)<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I hear you. That was the best group I shot all day so I had to take a pic. The results were simmilar in that I always got better groups with the 125g heads. I am very pleased with the way the bow is shooting. I love being in the groove
>>>----Andrew---->
I hear you. That was the best group I shot all day so I had to take a pic. The results were simmilar in that I always got better groups with the 125g heads. I am very pleased with the way the bow is shooting. I love being in the groove
>>>----Andrew---->