What makes a set of string and cables the best?
#12
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 519
Likes: 0
From:
ORIGINAL: Straightarrow
In my opinion, there are a few important aspects of string building that are important when you're making it for someone else.
String creep is elongation of the string, that is NOT due to stretching of the string. This is slack in the string fibers and from the construction method, that show up down the road with the string gradually getting longer. When this happens, your nocking point will generally move a bit, especially on a single cam. It will also affect your draw length and draw weight. All this, makes string creep enemy number one. I can tie a string, so that creep is less than 1/8" over a year on a 100"+ string. I've measured string creep of near 2" on strings many times. Which would you want on your bow?
Serving quality varies greatly. The ideal serving is strong, stable and fits the cam groves. Although the last point usually has more to do with the manufacturer of the cam. A good serving won't separate or wear too fast. Once again, this is an area where there are great differences from different string makers. If your serving separates or your center serving moves, it can affect your bow tune. It can also expose your string to wear if the separation is severe.
Peep stability is another area where many people are going to look critically at. I don't use a peep, so it means nothing to me, but most peep users want a peep that stays put without having to resort to rubber tubing. This is tricky and often the problem is with the archer, not the string. However, a string can be made to have minimal or no twisting, while others are constantly moving.
Most archers want a string that not only doesn't require much time before they can tune the bow, but they want it to last for at least a year of heavy shooting. This is tricky, because prestretching can weaken fibers, yet not prestretching, will allow for more of the dreaded string creep and a much longer time breaking the string in. That's why you have to take 30-200 shots - to get the string creep out. This means the string is now a different length - bad! I've personally made many strings that were prestretched in the 400-500 lb range, with absolutely zero problems with durability or string creep. You can pop your peep in and start tuning immediately. Zero string creep and no break-in time.
So, yes there is a difference in string makers and you can only evaluate one by talking to some knowledgable shooters who have used the strings long term. Durability, and string creep cannot be meaningfully evaluated short term. Creep can only be detected by someone who measures the string under pressure, both when it's new and when it's replaced. I record this for all the strings I make.
In my opinion, there are a few important aspects of string building that are important when you're making it for someone else.
String creep is elongation of the string, that is NOT due to stretching of the string. This is slack in the string fibers and from the construction method, that show up down the road with the string gradually getting longer. When this happens, your nocking point will generally move a bit, especially on a single cam. It will also affect your draw length and draw weight. All this, makes string creep enemy number one. I can tie a string, so that creep is less than 1/8" over a year on a 100"+ string. I've measured string creep of near 2" on strings many times. Which would you want on your bow?
Serving quality varies greatly. The ideal serving is strong, stable and fits the cam groves. Although the last point usually has more to do with the manufacturer of the cam. A good serving won't separate or wear too fast. Once again, this is an area where there are great differences from different string makers. If your serving separates or your center serving moves, it can affect your bow tune. It can also expose your string to wear if the separation is severe.
Peep stability is another area where many people are going to look critically at. I don't use a peep, so it means nothing to me, but most peep users want a peep that stays put without having to resort to rubber tubing. This is tricky and often the problem is with the archer, not the string. However, a string can be made to have minimal or no twisting, while others are constantly moving.
Most archers want a string that not only doesn't require much time before they can tune the bow, but they want it to last for at least a year of heavy shooting. This is tricky, because prestretching can weaken fibers, yet not prestretching, will allow for more of the dreaded string creep and a much longer time breaking the string in. That's why you have to take 30-200 shots - to get the string creep out. This means the string is now a different length - bad! I've personally made many strings that were prestretched in the 400-500 lb range, with absolutely zero problems with durability or string creep. You can pop your peep in and start tuning immediately. Zero string creep and no break-in time.
So, yes there is a difference in string makers and you can only evaluate one by talking to some knowledgable shooters who have used the strings long term. Durability, and string creep cannot be meaningfully evaluated short term. Creep can only be detected by someone who measures the string under pressure, both when it's new and when it's replaced. I record this for all the strings I make.
Straightarrow,
That was a great post. Thanks for taking the time to explain the details. For myself and anyone else who reads this; we will no longer have to ask that question again or wonder what step should be taken to make a good string. I feel like I have a better understanding of such an important part to accuracy (string making) and I thank you for that. I will print this out and keep it with my other notes to refer to in years to come. Thanks again for your time.
#13
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,413
Likes: 0
From:
just to say, modern materials can't elongate an inch, 2 inches, or anywhere close to that. when that happens, the material isn't elongating. its something else.
The only warning I give people, is to make sure to get a new string every year, if they get one from me. High Vectran-content strings are more brittle and can break more easily without warning. I've never had one break within a year of construction, even with 30,000 shots on it, but it's better to be safe than sorry.
#15
What does elongate a string that much? I have personally seen strings elongate that , and more. In fact, just last week I worked on a bow (single cam) that went from a 33" A to A to 34". The string elongated at least 2" for him. As well as an inch on the buss cable. FWIW it was the original string to his Parker EZ draw. I had the same experience about four years back on my Feather Mag.
#16
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,413
Likes: 0
From:
Really, don't stop there gibblet. Tell us what does it. I know if happens and frequently, because I've personally measured it many times. Maybe you're saying that many string makers are so poor, that the original strings were made an inch longer than what they were trying to make.
Besides, how can you reliably say that poor construction methods can't cause it? If there is plenty of slack (inconsistant wrapping tension), and a poor finishing knot, and loose servings then the string can move a lot farther than one would think.
Besides, how can you reliably say that poor construction methods can't cause it? If there is plenty of slack (inconsistant wrapping tension), and a poor finishing knot, and loose servings then the string can move a lot farther than one would think.
#17
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 519
Likes: 0
From:
I heard the best results for 452X are taking it up to a preload of 400 pounds for a few minutes, backing it down to 200 pounds and serving it at that 200 pounds. Can we all agree on that much?
#18
oh, sorry straightarrow, i apologize, you had it and i missed it. poor finishing knot in the string. the tag ends that got wrapped over, butnot tied in a good knot are sliding each time the bow is fired, but just a teeny, tiny bit. i missed it in your post. i probably read it but just didnt' get that 's what you were saying. so its actually sliding apart.
mildot,why would you ask us to agree about something when you have no earthly idea if its true or not. did he even tell you why he does that? the 400# part? i know, but do you? and no, i don't do it.
you should check out larry's strings on his hoyts. he made them on his jig. no tension other than what the jig gets, which maxes at 70#. no seperation, no rotation. hmmmmm?
mildot,why would you ask us to agree about something when you have no earthly idea if its true or not. did he even tell you why he does that? the 400# part? i know, but do you? and no, i don't do it.
you should check out larry's strings on his hoyts. he made them on his jig. no tension other than what the jig gets, which maxes at 70#. no seperation, no rotation. hmmmmm?
#19
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,413
Likes: 0
From:
you should check out larry's strings on his hoyts. he made them on his jig. no tension other than what the jig gets, which maxes at 70#. no seperation, no rotation. hmmmmm?
By the way, I always meaure stock strings that are new that I'm replacing and a huge percentage of them have been the wrong length - sometimes off by more than an inch! The only reason I put a lot of pressure on my strings is that it shortens the break-in period to almost nothing, and gets to the perfect length more easily. Most people like that. A perfectly good string can be made with only moderate tension. However, the person has to be willing to shoot for a bit without tuning, and then put the string back on a jig and put in a twist or two in order get back to exact string length. Of course, exact string length is not critical or important to many people. I know a lot of string makers who make their strings 1/8" or 1/4" short, to compensate for the movement they will make in the first couple hundred shots.
MilDotMaster, I have experimented with tension at 400 lbs overnight, and have not noticed any problems doing this. In fact the end servings have to be served at this tension or I wouldn't dare leave it for any length of time under that tension. I'm fairly certain that it's important to serve at a tension that is greater than the draw weight of the bow, but I'm not convinced that it can't be a lot higher.
By the way, I don't sell strings. I make them for myself and friends. If someone wants a good string, they should go to a guy like gibblet.
#20
arrow, ever notice which bows come with strings with absolutely no knots in the string at all? the ones everyone complains about all the time? i don't want to say it outloud, maybe they'll start using knots


