Hey all, I have a 18-month-old Springer Spaniel that has shown excellent abilities in finding and retrieving pheasants, but the problem is that she won't hunt more than 5-10 yards away from me unless she gets on the scent of a bird. Sometimes she'll even loop around and hunt BEHIND me. I've tried everything...any ideas?

What training program (book/tape) are you following?

I'm using George Hickox's tapes, Training the Upland Flushing Dog, tapes 1 and 2.

First, you'll need to train your dog to quarter, and follow hand signals. Then plant some birds (pigeons work well) in a field in a zig-zag pattern and quarter him through the field (with both you and the dog "quartering in a zig-zag pattern), and hunt him INTO the wind. Put a small piece of ribbon where you plant the birds so that you can make sure your dog catches scent (and so you can remember where you planted them).

Another mehtod (requires one more person) is for two of you to walk through a field and call the dog back and forth between you. when the dog is going toward your buddy, you throw out a bird and call the dog back to you (so he can find the bird you threw out) -- then you have your buddy do the same thing (make sure the dog doesn't see the bird being thrown out).

Also, I think the Hickox book "Hunt 'Em Up" is a lot better than the tapes.

Dez I hunt with a female Springer as well and have seen this. I have a few questions before I could recommend a possible solution.

How good of shape is your dog in. Be honest, have you worked your dog well before the season started? How thick is the cover you are hunting?

At home and during the off season do you walk your dog on a leash much? How often do you "heel" your dog when taking it out?

Would you decribe your dog as confident? How does your Springer act around strangers and in new situations?

Very fixable issue, and in the long run bodes well for how she will hunt as she matures.

I'm a runner, and she runs 4-5 miles with me 5 days a week, plus rollerblading with my wife, so she should be in good shape. She is on a leash when I'm running, and she seems to naturally run at heel position...I don't enforce it if she wants to run ahead of me. I usually only "heel" her when other people or dogs are approaching.

The cover we are hunting is CRP land...pretty thick.

She is probably the most confident Springer I've ever met...head always held high, and incredibly bold. Very inquisitive and excited by new people and surroundings.

Thanks for all your help!

Doc E is right on the money with his solution to your problem, but it might take some time. The dog enjoys making you happy right? And when he finds birds you are happy, so you have to put the two together.

Like Doc says, when the dog is going one way toss a clipped wing bird behind it, and out a little bit to the other side. Then signal the dog to switch direction towards the bird. Work slowly, into the wind. If the dog is really slow to move away from you, you may need to stand in one place while the dog picks up the scent of the bird. The idea is to have the dog find the bird at gradually increasing ranges, so don't walk the dog to the bird. It sounds like your dog has a good nose, so this should be easy. By always tossing the bird in the opposite direction the dog is working teaches him to make the windshield wipe pattern in front of you.

I tend not to worry if my dogs occasionally circle and work behind me. The dog has the nose not me, and I've seen some funny things happen out there.

There is another possible solution to your problem too. If the dog retrieve well like you say try training him to make blind retrieves Lab style. This will build his confidence in finding things where you tell him to go. With this method you can send your dog out as if there is a blind when there isn't one and then just keep redirecting him as needed. Sooner or later his nose will pick up scent and he will flush a bird. Just make sure you can read your dog well so you don't redirect him away from a bird once he makes game.
I wouldn't work on blinds longer than 40 yards, because if you try this method you would want the dog inside that distance. After a while the dog should get used to being out in front.

Anyway, I've never had to do this so...
Good luck

Sounds like conditioning isn't the issue! 4 to 5 miles, 5 times a week is more than most guys work their dogs, including mine! I have found as Springers get tired their range really drops .. from that perfect 10 to 20 yards, to almost sitting on your boot tops.

Confidence isn't the issue it sounds like either, some dogs just need to be close to their master, and stay close for support and encouragement. These dogs tend to start to range as confidence grows and with experience.

I would have to say you are experiencing the same thing I did with my Piper based on your comments. I lived in a busy area and when I would run I would keep her on a leash, when taking her to the park.. she was on a leash, when people and dogs came around she also was heeled. What all this "control" does though is enforce a VERY close working dog. You are essentially training your dog to stay at leash length to you when active out of the home. The Hickox tapes, I'm not familiar with but I am familiar with Hunt em up, so you obviously are training your dog in the field with real birds.

The solution that worked for me was to train the behavior I desired. It started in the summer taking the time to find exercise areas where I could "push" her out more. Removed all check cords during training and worked her on finding scented balls/retrieving at greater distances. I encouraged her through positive reinforcement to roam, often slowing down or stopping to create the desired seperation. I also agree with hand signal control would help, as a great way to get a dog to really hunt the thick stuff is to direct the actions of a close working dog. Take advantage of the proximity to cast your dog into the birdy looking cover. This allows you to move while the dog is in the cover letting them know seperation is ok and good. As far as the dog drifting behind you, in training if she gets behind you walk quickly away from her .. encouraging her to pass you, then slow down and praise her for getting out ahead. Make sharp turns when she's not paying attention .. forcing her to catch back up and get ahead .. she'll catch on quick, behind is not good.

Piper and I are in our 3rd year together and we have developed a routine now we have created through training and time afield. She quarters well slowly getting farther and farther out, at the point she's getting to the edge of where I want her I whistle her in and she comes in tight and we repeat. I like the control it gives me when I want her to work a particularly thick spot, and she likes checking back in often and knowing I'm watching how good she is doing. It also allows for great control when other dogs or hunters are encountered.

I'll end with, your dog is still VERY young. 18 months is just a pup, and her best hunting days are way ahead of her. The more hunting you do with her, the more you and her will learn to hunt together. Taking some time now while in the field to work on skills, will be well spent. Such as standing in a single spot for 5 minutes. She'll quickly cover that 5 to 10 yard arc.. and need to roam to hit new cover, a few atta girls and good girls when she leaves your boot tops will clue her in she's at the distance you want her to be.

Let me know how you make out and please send a pic.

These guys have all offered great suggestions, so I guess I'll throw in my two cents...

Whether training flushing or pointing dogs, I have employed a very subtle tactic to increase the range of my dogs. I simply wait until they are preoccupied with birds (for some pups, mice... damn it!) or are not looking and hold up. Once the pup reaches my desired range, I again start moving with them, maintaining the distance I want by waiting. Eventually, the dog determines where he is supposed to be and becomes more confident with the distance.

More often, I'm looking to rent a thoroughbred to run the e-collar shucking lil' SOB down!

Thanks everyone for all your help! I'll keep working with her and report back with results.