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an unusual question

Old 03-29-2007, 09:12 PM
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Hello, I have an unusual question I'd like to see some discussion on. I consider myself a pretty good dog handler. I can usually figure them out and train them to obey and be easy enough dogs to deal with.But I heard somethinglast night that I have never heard before. Have any of you ever heard that kenneling dogs together or right next to each other tends to keep them from bonding with you and instead growing overly attached to one another from the long hours of interaction without you? I had a professional trainer tell me that last night. She said if you are training an individual dog for hunting or obedience or other performance that you should not allow young pups or young dogs to be around your other dogs all day, such as in adjacent kennel runs, because she said it causes the pup to bond too much with the other dogs, and because of the more limited interaction with you, end up not as much attached to you. It sounds ludicrous and impractical to keep dogs separated for the most part until adults or when other situations like in the field, but at the same time I can say my younger female is almost two years old and far less attached to me than I prefer. My older male on the other hand, bonded with only me when he was a pup and was not kenneled with another dog until I got her. He tends to be a better dog in my opinion, while the female never even seems to care that I am around. Do you think there is something to the trainer's thoughts? I realize different dogs have different personalities, but this trainer said she doesn't allow puppies to be with her adult dogs too much during the young training months because she seems to think it has benefits in training and in the long term relationship the dog has with you. However, most anyone I know who has more than one dog usually raises them together in adjacent kennels, if not in the same kennel. I was wondering if any of you have had experiences that might point to this trainers advice being true? I know her and she is pretty good with dogs and runs an obedience school. I just had never heard that advice before. I think it is impractical, but something makes me ask if there could be something to it. I was considering keeping my next pup in an entirely different kennel run in a different part of the yard. I won't have that pup until this summer probably when the litter I am waiting for is ready to wean. They won't even be born for another two weeks I bet. I know it seems crazy, but just think about it before answering, and lets have a discussion. Not an argument or a teaching session where one dog man knows the most over another, but instead just a real discussion. MIKE
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Old 03-29-2007, 11:34 PM
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Default RE: an unusual question

My thoughts here are gonna come from my experience with my two dogs. I have a Femaleabout to turn7 years old now and a male about to turn 2. My female grew up a single dog and is very affectionat, and obediantwith me and very mild tempered with people but is very protective of her territory when it comes to meeting other female dogs. Male dogs don't bother her. A female she will fight...
Now my male grew up with her in the same or neighboring kennel. He is very obedient to me and loves to go everywhere with me and is very mild tempered to other dogs and people. Biggest baby, in a good way, I've ever seen. Great hunter and retriever too. Hes not as effectionat as my female though. Maybe a male thing or the other dog thng I don't know. He would rather work than let ya pet him all the time. My parents say that he seems sad and less energitic when I'm gone to college during the week but when I'm home he goes everywhere with me and loves the attention.He is also very jelous of other dogs when you show them attention...
Now to analyze...
My female I think is the way she is with other dogs possibly because she grew up being the only dog around andknows she ishead b*tch. Her effection and obedience prolly comes from being only with me and no other dogs I could supose...
My male I think is the way he is with other dogs because he grew up with her being boss and getting interaction with other dogs. I exposed him to many dogs and took him everywhere when he was a pup. His temper with people is great to however which just seems to be his nature so who knows. You should see him play woith the puppies in the yard. I think he is more heart broken when they leave than my female. Anyways he still obeys me and mostly me and he grew up next to my female.Doesn't listen real well to anyone else...
I guess my conclusion for now would be that interaction with other dogs is great for making a dog well rounded socialy with other dogs but may have some but not a ton of difference on how well they are attached to you orobey you. In the endfor my purpose of having a hunting companion,(not a field trial champ) and a healthy socialized dog who gets along with other dogs and I they do what I need them to is much more important to me than one who loves me and ony me and is a worry when around other dogs. WCL
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Old 03-29-2007, 11:36 PM
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Default RE: an unusual question

Great theory and discussion topic by the way. Interested to here what other people have to say about their experiences.WCL
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Old 03-30-2007, 06:50 AM
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Default RE: an unusual question

Dogs (by this I am talking about pups) bond to dogs more easily than dogs bond with humans.
Until two pups are relatively mature (a year old or more), they should not be kennelled
together. They can be allowed a few minutes a day together to play and learn dog to dog
manners, but they should be kennelled and trained seperately. They can "kind of" be trained
together if one is staked out to observe. The actual training is one at a time.



.
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Old 03-30-2007, 09:12 AM
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Default RE: an unusual question

Totally agree with ya Doc about the one on one training. I always took my pup away from the kennel where my other dog was so there was no distractions. Just him and me. Also take my dogs for swims all the time and for training. When my male was a pup I would only take him and that would irritate the heck out of my female cuz she knew where I was takin him but once I got bakc home I would always put him away and take her for her swim too. She loves dock jumping. I think that is her favorite thing to do of anything. doesn't matter where you throw the dummy she will always run for the dock and jump off even if it was a longer retrieve. WCL
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Old 03-30-2007, 12:29 PM
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Default RE: an unusual question

type of dog matters also. the more domesticated breeds can stand a little more interaction with other dogs at a younger age. those breeds, especially hunting breeds and wolf-like breeds, should be kept seperately as they tend to bond with dogs MUCH more easily than with humans. I have laikas, ancient russian hunting dog. these absolutely must be kept seperate in order to "train". once they have bonded to you, the trainor, they will view you as the lead dog and never question your authority. if you allow another dog to take this "lead dog" role, then a laika will never view you as an authority and will be very unruley. most real hunting dogs will behave similiarly---maybe not as pronounced.

poodles may be trained together. what's a poodle?!?!?
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Old 03-30-2007, 09:32 PM
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Default RE: an unusual question

ORIGINAL: Doc E

Dogs (by this I am talking about pups) bond to dogs more easily than dogs bond with humans.
Until two pups are relatively mature (a year old or more), they should not be kennelled
together. They can be allowed a few minutes a day together to play and learn dog to dog
manners, but they should be kennelled and trained seperately. They can "kind of" be trained
together if one is staked out to observe. The actual training is one at a time.



.

Doc E,
So is the suggested method to keep them completely separated so that they cannot even see each other from their kennels, or just in separate kennels...say...on different sides of the yard but in plain view of each other? What is the mainstream thought?
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Old 03-31-2007, 07:38 AM
  #8  
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Default RE: an unusual question

They can be allowed to see each other, but with enough seperation that they cannot interact with one another.



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Old 04-03-2007, 04:33 PM
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Default RE: an unusual question

I think that this may be true for kennel dogs, but maybe not so for house dogs. My protocol is that for the first four months, the puppy sleeps in my bed with me. This takes an understanding wife and the ability to sleep with small animals scratching, adjusting, etc. Hold the puppy on your lap, feed him treats, bond, bond, and bond some more.

All of my dogs are very attatched to me, and none of them were "limited" with their interactions with other dogs. I generally don't believe that dogs truly "see" humans as their pack member. I don't look like a dog, I don't smell like a dog (well at least I do not think so), I don't sound or act like a dog. I believe dogs are smart enough to understand that I am NOT a dog.

However, I think dogs interact with us the only way they are wired to interact with us, thus giving us the appearance of seeing us as the pack leader. They understand authority and will respond to it appropriately. The dogs get things from me that they cannot get from another dog, and they come to crave my approval and affection.

I believe that is the key. I am better than a dog pack leader. I am benevolent, kind, and share my food. I also pet, scratch, sweet talk, etc.
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Old 04-13-2007, 12:45 PM
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Default RE: an unusual question

How are things going, Mike? Are there any other squirrel dog folks on here? I hope you got the answer you were looking for here.
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