Doc E

Daleh,
My PL does it all. Does he cover as much ground as your pointer? Nope, I certainly doubt if he does. Does he find as many birds per hour as your pointer? Yup, he probably does.

A few weekends ago, I decided to just have a "fun hunt" and see how long it would take to get one each of the four species of birds we were hunting that day.

It took 24 minutes of hunting to get a Goose, a Duck, a Pheasant and a Quail. There are probably only a couple breeds of dogs (DD/GWP and Pointing Labs) that can consistently bring home a mixed bag like the one in this pic.

BTW, we hunt ONLY Wild Birds here -- no "released" birds at all.

sproulman

nice pics, doc.. what i am seeing here in pa. is this on GROUSEnot pheasants..lets talk the toughest bird to get here in pa..

when fall comes, any dog and hunter can get grouse..they all flush in groups at 20 yds or less..

why, cover and feed and young birds grouping together..

when dec comes, grouse are spooky..by then, most have split up..you have NO LEAVES and now shots are 30 to 50 yds, if you shoot..

the dogs that hunt way out, say 100 yards,are not way to go ..all you will hear is this FLUSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH..its so bad you cant hear where grouse took off from until you look around..

now, only dog i saw that hunts close, 20 yds is LAB..thats great but not PERFECT..

guess what lab does,HE FLUSHES..thats not good even at 20 yds but is doable..

a LAB that would POINT at 20 yds,oh my, you would have something there..or any dog that will point at 20/30 yds is a great thing..

early in season, grouse are not spooky.. a dog that roams out in front 100 yds covering territory , is fine..

but, when he does that later when leaves are off,not so good..grouse will not HOLD until you get there..the way they survive is flushing real quick at first sighn of danger in dec/jan here in pa..

so, a dog that hunts close not covering a lot of territory and POINTS,oh my, you have 1 heck of hunting partner there..

the 3 things i have found that i wish lab hadmor of is this..better nose for birds,not tire out so quick,be able TO POINT..

the other dogs that point have their things that i dont like also..roaming out to far,covering territory to fast and flushing birds out of gun range,cant take cold.yotes,dont retrieve,briars in hair,feet pick up thorns..

i guess, no dog has everything we would like but LAB, long legged,skinny waist,american one,no larger on male than 80 pds,female 65 pds,and POINTS,is as close to the ALL AROUND DOG , in my humble opinion as you can get..

Mite

Nord QC Bouman
I bet you shoot a Benelli also . The reason people hunt with pointers is because some of us don't hunt waterfowl. If you lived in wide open country and only hunted upland then the pointers are the way to go. That's not to say a flusher wouldn't be good, but you want a dog to cover alot of ground. Also tradition plays a large part to some people as opposed to just getting a 'meat' dog.

Doc E
If you hunted chukars exclusively, would you still want a PL? Interesting question to ask.

Sproulman
Check out a traditional Llewellin setter.Stays close in the woods. Natural pointers. They've been the traditional grouse and snipe dogs for the past 100 years. The problem I have with my Llewellinis I like to see her run out more in open country.

Nord QC Bouman

Even less classy than that - a Browning light 12 and for wet birds - 870 express. I wish I could hunt in Dakotas with a net...

Nord QC Bouman

THis response has irked me for a day. I will now guess that you shoot a Franchi over under that cost what by 4 wheeler does, and you spaniel gives you plenty of time to amber up to the chucker covey, put out your cuban, flask your hennessy and load your number 8 shot reloads. Your hunting trousers and shirt are neatly pressed by your maids and your vest completes the ensemble now bringing you whole hunting adventure to a cost exceeding trucks value and anyones common sense.

Whatis this Harvard Yard BS with some sporting folks...

Doc E

I can't imagine only hunting one species of animal, but IF I were to only hunt Chukars, I wouldn't chose a PL for the job. But because we hunt doves, grouse, rabbits, pheasants, quail, ducks and geese (we used to hunt chukars, but I'm too old for that now), I want a dog that "can do them all".



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daleh

Different Strokes for Different Folks.
That is why they make Chevys, Fords, and Dodges
also why there are so many shotguns clothes and bird dogs
Luckily some folks can have different guns, vehicles, clothes, and dogs to do specific things
Some do not have that fortune
I hunt with folks that can go anywhere they want to hunt in the world and i also go hunting with folks that can only afford to with me.

For me Hunting is a Tradition, it is also a big part of my heritage.
It is not important to kill everything we find or see, but what is important.
The Bird Dogs, The Fellowship, The preservation of the Land, and The Birds.

Mite

Nord QC Bouman
LOL. I mentioned Benelli because that gun seems very popular with alot of people (don't like the modern styling - I perfer wood over synthetic).Personally, I shoot a SKB O/U because of nostaglic reasons. That's as far as I go concerning tradition. But if Iaffordall that I probably would.

Doc E
The reason I asked is because there are some people who will always champion their breed of dogs no matter what game even beyond common sense. I mean if one breed of dog is the greatest dog at everything, why would we even have other breeds?

Doc E

I agree completely. If a person were to only hunt a particular variety of game, then there is certainly a "specialist dog" that would do the job better than others.
If I were to only hunt Grouse, I'd probably go with a Setter -- Only Pheasants or Quail I'd go with a Pointer -- Only Waterfowl, a less expensive "Flushing Lab" would be my choice....................But for an "all arounder", it'd be a PL for me (but a GWP/DD would be fine too).



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sproulman

doc e,i dont hunt DUCKS but i still like a LAB,i hunt grouse the most..flushing of lab is where lose a LOT of grouse..if lab would just POINT, would get more grouse..

in fall ANY dog is great because of leaves and all shots are 20 yds here in pa..you and your dog can look like expert here in pa. in fall..

but in winter, thats now..i was out yesterday,flushed 2 grouse, thats GOOD DAY now for 4 hours of hunting..those grouse flushed at 40 yds andno way we would ever get one at that distance, i shoot anyhow to keep our dogs interested..we had POINTER HUNTING..

i have friend that has kennel in pa.. he sells and trains bird dogs..he told me that for 10 birds flushed, i assume he was talking pheasants/chuckars,he said the llwellin setter would get 7 birds and lab 3 birds..that could be, he should know but i saw labs that flushed every pheasant in fields..

labs i see are almost as good on nose as setter but the labs dont COVER territory like setter out farther,labs are always close..

setter has its problems,thorns in feet, hair,cant handle themselves with yote or bobcat,dont like to get wet,cant handle real cold..their good things are , nose,go all day hunting,point..

labs can take cold, not heat,tough dog, yote they can handle,they handle hunters traps well,not scared of bear,bobcat,dont chase deer,their feet seem to be tougher than other dogs on thorns,hair is not problem on briars,hunt close,they look for you not you for them,they retrieve..

only 2 things i see that i wish lab had,even with nose not as good as setters,is,they tire out in 2 or 3 hours BUT, i think thats a lot to do with heat in fall,as it gets colder, they do better..the big one is THEY DONT POINT..if they did, boy, that would be something i would like to see and could very well be the BEST ALL AROUND DOG you could own

does anyone have a place you could get a vcr tape on someone hunting a POINTING LAB, i would be interested in seeing pointing lab hunting..