This is just a question, I know what I feel. I figured this one will get everyone wound up. What do you feel? Pointing labs made, or born that way? Now,we didn't start hearinganything about them until approximately 10 years ago. They have always been a flushing dog. Are we taking away from the dog to have some much control, on the dog and bird situation? Pointers it is natural, labs???? Just curious what you feel. Do not care either way. Just curious what all thinks?? I feel this is gonna be good. Now, I know for a fact, I can make a retriever sit at the bird through the flush, and through the shot. Itis hard process. This what is happening for the point? Whatcha think?? Thanks Jonesy

No, fingers pointed, and no disbelief, just wondering what you thought. Honestly!! Thanks Jonesy

tailcrakin,

I used to hunt with a guy who had a chocolate lab out of a fathe who was a PL. He NEVER encouraged the dog to point, in fact, since he ran UKC, the dog had to flush.

The lab still pointed, and pointed HARD.

After viewing this, I believe it is genetic in some labs. I also think that some from pointing stock do NOT have any instinct to point, but can have it trained into them, and I think this happens more than you think, but since guys are paying two grand for some of these dogs, no one wants to admit that the dog had no genetic predisposition.

I do not find it hard to believe. Look at the wire haired breeds. LOTS of varaition within a litter sometimes, and two wooly buggers can throw a slick pup.

I do not believe they have the genes locked in well enough yet.

Okay, now I want all to understand, I personally, am not against this,or for this. This is a topic for everybody to put there 2 cents in!! No offense on anybodies part!! DocE still love ya and I AM NOT against what your dog can do!!! I mean that, this is a topic of discussionthat happens all over the U.S. Just seeing how everybody felt. PLEASE, NO OFFENSE!! Now I have worked several labs that paused right before the flush, a noticable pause. But then again, I have also had some springers do the same. I wonder why?? I have had this discussion with different pro's, They have felt that the dog was deciding what to do. So you think more man made than bred into. I mean, I guess, if we think about it, all the pointing breeds flush some what, before, we teach not to, correct?? Now here's a good one...... Is it worth it to " change " the breed?? And encourage this response. I mean I don't feel nothing better, than to have big ol rooster up under my feet with my lab nipping feathers out?? Thanks Jonesy

My feeling is that someone wanted a biddable type dog that's not hyper and felt pointing would be nice. I don't mind them but personally would not get one. I now do strictly upland soI got a pure upland dog.

From what I know, labs are not really built to run. They are bred to retrieve. Thick bodies to bust through weed and cattails. Natural swimmers. Excellent marking ability. You can breed them tobe runners like the EP, GSP,Visula, etc. but thenyou will prolly have to sacrifice something else. Running vs. swimming, hyper vs. biddable, marking vs. finding, etc.

Most labs I've seen hunting upland, tend to lop ahead, I've rarely seen a lab quarter but then I haven't seen a PL hunt. I'm use to huntingwith EPs and ESs so when I see a dog that doesn't have his nose down going full bore I tend to ignore it. The dog that loves open country usually catches my eye.

Anyhow, I'm sure Doc E and Wayne1's dogs are very good in the field and better in the cattails. I would love to see a PL hunt but haven't had the opportunity. So, I'll reserve judgement on whether I like them or not.

.....Mite...If ya ever get a chance to go to a NAHRA Field Test...."GO"....please..!!!..it's a requirement. Think you'd be amazed what a PL can do..

ive got a black lab. and if he sees one while hes tracking, hell get rigid and try to catch it. idk if thats considered pointing. but its fun to watch. haha

My understanding on Ponting Labs is the pointing tendancy was found to be a desirable trait in a few dogs and this trait was enhanced by breading similar dogs. Pointing, which is just a refinement of stalking, is a natural tendancy of any predatory animal looking for food. In other words, a lab that points is a natural thing that has just been enhanced through breeding.

1. TRUE PLs are born that way -- it's genetic. As with all pointing dogs, training is for the refinements of what comes naturally.

2. Actually, they have been "bred for" for about 20 years. They definitely have gained in popularity for the last 10 (especially the last 5) years.

3. Nope. Good PLs are competing in Field Trials and doing very well, and the highest levels of Field Tests and Hunt Tests.

4. "Pointing" is natural in almost all predatory animals. About 10% of all Labs from Flushing ancestry will point (naturally) and 80% to 100% of Labs from a good Pointing pedigree will point.

5. Huge difference between training a dog to "stand game" vs. "natural point".

6. See answer #5.



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All right Doc, Now thats what I was waiting to hear!!! I knew some one would come out of the closet!! Way to go Doc. excellent , excellent post! Thanks Jonesy