RE: Virginia Dog Hunting
 

You're 100% correct. Read the fine print as well. Sometimes they slip little things in there instead of making them plainly visible as well as being upfront about things. But I would expect no less from our white tailed fox chasing friends.

Traditions and so called rights, actually a license to abuse rights, is finally getting looked at. I would be worried too, that is if I was one that relied on abuse of rights to shoot deer. Traditions change. We'll see that in time. They changed for several other states that ran dogs. Expect the same here in time.

RE: Virginia Dog Hunting
 

Why not just have annual membership fees?
We established the VHDA in response to the DGIF study on hounds and the general unresponsiveness of DGIF to Sportsmen’s concerns. It was felt that a new organization should not weaken existing groups, but work to strengthen all groups entering an Alliance. No membership fee is required, we ask Alliance groups and clubs to send a donation and provide their mailing list so that we support General Assembly members that are our friends and oppose those that work against out rights. Many clubs and organizations are holding fundraisers locally to help raise money for this Alliance.

RE: Virginia Dog Hunting
 

....The general unresponsiveness of DGIF to Sportsmans concerns.............Such as NO Sunday Hunting ?........And keeping hunters from trespassing on Private Property looking for their dogs and screwing up someones hunt ?......

RE: Virginia Dog Hunting
 

It's their tradition and their right to do that. And they're willing to do whatever it takes to keep the abuse in place without any compromise what so ever. Any laws proposed to attempt to fix the problem they're against. And they truly don't understand or see the other side. It's all about them and no one else.

RE: Virginia Dog Hunting
 

Bigg Birdd....

I am not trying to start something but have a question for you. You are always speaking of the great injustuces thrust upon you by others, and yes I understand that you may/probably have some legitamite reasons for being upset due to people beaking the law and those actions messing with your choice of how to spend your times outdoors. I am also betting that you are a hunter who would like to see sunday allowed in this great state of ours, as would I and I am working on trying to be a help in getting that to happen (which is better than sitting at computer b**ching about it and doing nothing, as alot of people do-not saying that is you).

What I am getting it as why the overly zealous stance on dividing our ranks? You wish to put a end to a style of hunting that you do not care for (due to whatever reasons and you have every right not to care to participate in a style or activity that you do not enjoy). With that you in turn are partaking in ANTI HUNTING ACTIONS. So where does thet seperate you from a anti hunter who wants to put a end to bow hunting. Bow hunting is a style of hunting such as deer dogs are.

Really there would be no difference, you want to end a style of hunting= anti hunting. Joe Smith down the road from you wants to end bow hunting=anit hunting ( and you would be one of the first to label him a anti hunter just as any hunter would.)

I know that you are not a die hard anti such as someone from peta but if you would stop for a second, inhale, count to 10 and slowly exhale and think about what I am saying with a open mind you should be able to see what other people see when they look at your posts and lines of thought. You are not the only one who wants to ban this style of hunting and yes I have had discussions with a few of them as well, some of them opened their eyes and say what was happening and decided to help work toward a resolution. Some decided to go neutral and some decided to keep moving forward with their anit hunting actions.

I understand your frustration because I have hunts that were interrupted by dogs, which on one occasion were running a red fox which was perfectly legal.. was I happy, well I will say I wasnt filled with joy but that is one of the risks anywhere in the state since there is a open chase season. There have been other occasions where the dogs were running deer and yes I was not a happy camper and yes I made complaints about it, once again a known risk. As a dog owner I have had my fox dogs run deer on occasion, and I have sold those dogs or kept them for my deer pack, but I prefer my fox dogs to run fox only, just as a rabbit hunter wants his dogs to run only rabbit so it is a uncontrolable risk that it may happen, but if is the same dogs running deer all of the time in the off season then I would agree that it is on purpose and not a unwanted event, and that should be corrected.

I do not agree with the right to retreive law as it is written. I may go onto your land without permission to recover my dog (unarmed and on foot) but yet I can not set foot upon yoru land to try to recover a wounded animal (unarmed and on foot) and that is fair or a ehtical law? Not really. I also know it is badly abused by some for their own personal gain, such as turning loose on a tract that they do not have a lease or permission for and then following the dogs in and "hollar for the dogs" when in fact they are trying to drive them. I find that kind of unethical and illegal action a slap in the face to not only all the law abiding dog hunters but all law abiding hunters in general.

There is no reason that a person/club can not talk to their adjoining landowners in the off season, well prior to opening day and ask about being able to retreive their dogs. I feel that alot of landwoners would be more willing and less put off if that show of respect was shown and not " the law says I can so I am" attitude. maybe the landowner would say yes help yourself, maybe it would be with rules such as only certain people or certain times they would or would not be allowed etc etc.. I am sure that some landowners will not want anyone on their property at all, and I can respect that. That is the reason I have my name on my collars and a tracking collar on my dogs so that I can try to get as close as legally possible and try to call them out to me.

Believe anybody I hunt with or that I personally know inlcuding myself want their dogs on your land anymore than you do. They are not doing us any good if they are not where we can catch them or harvest the animal if we wish. I also know plenty of still hunters who will harvest deer off of dogs that make it to their proprerty and that is fine with me. I have no problems with anyone legally harvesting a deer of my dogs no matter who they are, all I ask is call me to let me know you have my dogs and where I can meet you to get them of your property and you can resume hunting or taking care of your harvest. I have even helped guys drag deer out and made new friendships. I have also had people call me and the turn them loose five minutes later and cuss me for my dogs being there.


I will also say the clubs I hunt with and the ones surrounding us all partake in deer managment in some way shape or form. They all have a buck rule with the smallest allowable being 15" and the most stringent being 18" minimum. They also dont harvest small does for two reason, one to let them obtain a bigger size but the main reason is to try to nt harvest any button bucks so that the buck herd is healthy ratio. We do harvest plenty of mature does and bucks. IN all there is approx. 11,000 to 12,000 acres under this sort of managment. Tell me where else in VA do you have that kind of acreage in one block with that kind of managment in place. I also know alot of clubs shoot whatever and I dont agree with that either, but as long as it is legal that is their choice.

Anyway I am asking if you might want to rethink your anit hunting line of thoughts and maybe help work for a solution that works well with the times.

Those whom you are trying to impose your will upon will remember who was against them and who stood heir to help reach a middle ground. Mark my words there will be a time in the future, it may be next year or 5 years down the road but none the less there will be a day when a style of hunting you partake in comes under fire for changes or elmination, and these guys will remember and some of them will turn a cold shoulder o those who were against tehm but yet alot of them will stand up shoulder to shoulder with you and help you because o their love of the outdoors and hunting... just food for thought..

Justin

RE: Virginia Dog Hunting
 

Justin;

The issue is not with the 95% of dog hunters who do things right... its more with the 5% who try to make it look like they do things right, but are typically indifferent to the rights of others.

You have a legal right to retreive your dogs on foot and unarmed. That doesn't mean that your hunting buddies can stand on the property line with loaded guns while you tromp through someones property whooping and hollering for your dogs with just a leash in your hands. Thats called looking for dogs in SE VA... but every where else in the world thats called a mandrive... and tresspassing.

Moreover, you have the right to retrieve your dogs on foot and unarmed... but why are you on my land looking for your dogs at 430 pm when I am in a tree stand? My hunt has been ruined because your hunt ended early when the dogs left the hunt, and you were only concerned about finding your damned dogs.... thehell with anyone else who doesn't dog hunt.

These are examples. From your above post, you sound like the sort of man who is agood steward of our sport. They are in no way directed at you. They are just to help you and everyone else look at both sides of the issue in the name of good disscussion and healthy debate.

I have shot many dozen deer infront of dogs, and many dozen with a bow, and just as many with a rifle. I deer hunt because I like to eat. I shoot does mainly, but if a good buck comes by then he'll wear it too. When duck season opens... I'm waterfowl hunting. So dog hunting honestly doesn't effect me that much with the exception of folks who run "foxes" (yeah sure) during the archery season (which is when I take my deer), and those who leave their dogs that are not disirable or else get free, loose during spring turkey season. Adog running a deer in the spring that does not have a collar gets shot. I know several folks who just shoot them anyway. I'm not that cold hearted, and it saddens me to shoot one that is so thin he can barely run. I think about the hunt club I hunt with, and how there are almost as many kids as adults there... and I smile thinking about the future of our sport. Its a good thing. Dog hunting isn't bad or evil at all. But indifferent dog drivers/owners give dog hunting a bad name just like drunks give one to drinking.

The point here is that dog hunting has the to potential to interfere with other hunters and other landowners rights on a very regular basis. Bow hunting... not hardly at all, save the wounded deer case. I could bow hunt off the roof of your house and save my footsteps on the shingle you'd never know I was there. But trucks tearing up the paths, howling dogs, dogs being turned loose in places they ought not be, hunters on the hard surface road, going through other people's hunting land to retrieve dogs in the early afternoon.... that is what the issue at hand is. Nobody really has any huge issue with dog hunting.... most of the issues come about because of dog hunting: its the side effects.

RE: Virginia Dog Hunting
 

I and most other dog hunters agree with you, Its the bozo's on here that want to kill a dog just because it comes in their hunt are the ones that I'm disgusted with. Read some of these guys post and they dont care if a dog happens to run up on their hunt, they are gonna kill it or the ones that set traps just for the purpose of trapping the dogs to kill them. Some of these guys are selfish cowards. I know that a small handful of doghunters are the same. butsome of these crazies on here dont want to hear it... its their way or they will kill a dog... COWARDS!!!!!!!

RE: Virginia Dog Hunting
 

Excellent post, it seems that the VHDA only wants to slam the DGIFfor trying to correct issues with hunting with hounds.

RE: Virginia Dog Hunting
 

I would say if it's their land then they have a right for it to be their way. Unless you feel you have rights on anothers land. Do you feel you do?

RE: Virginia Dog Hunting
 

I would think that a fair punishment for having your hounds found on someone else's property would be for you to pay their property tax for the year (for each offense) as well as liability insurance (to ensure the property owner is not sued for negligence when a hunter gets hurt retrieving his dogs). After all, intentionally or unintentionally, you hunted that persons land. By DGIF/state definition, running dogs, with or without a firearm is hunting. Opinions?