RE: Too much doggie anger!!
 

First ask most doggers and they'll tell you chasing doesn't affect a thing. I and many others disagree. The state disagrees hence the no deer chasing out of season laws. They say they need to train right before season. What's right before dog season? Other non-dog hunting seasons. They run and could care less as they feel they're doing no harm. The law allows them to say "fox" and get away with it. It's a combo that's been getting worse each year and it's finally come to a breaking point. They're not capable of control either through ignorance or lack of compassion for other hunting methods. I've been in about 6-7 dog clubs. All but 1 to date have broken laws on a regular basis. The it's just a few is BS IMHO. Last season on just about every Sat I had 3+ packs of dogs running on our land during the course of a day. Gee, glad it's just a few huh?
The laws need to be changed and unfortunately there is going to be fallout for other dog groups. They can thank the deer doggers when it's over. The bottom line is it's not going to change until different laws exist to stop it by force. I love all this talk of education and can't we all get along but it's too little too late. The deer dogger has pushed and pushed and they've reached the end. All I can say is it's about time.


I'm also going to disagree on dogs are the only method to control deer in pine forests. Our club took 6 during ML and 22 during dog season. 6 in less than 2 weeks by way less hunters vs 22 in 8+ week by a full group doesn't impress me. Last club took 18 shooters last year. 9 during all of dog season and 9 during ML. State issued over 1800 damage permits for east of the Blue Ridge this year. If they're doing such a good job how come the dog hunting part of VA requires 50% more permits per square mile than the non dog hunting part of the state? Also non dog hunting takes 5 deer per sq mile for a 2 week gun season and the dog hunting part takes 6 deer per square mile for an 8+ week gun season? Sorry but facts and figures do not support the dogs are necessary story.

RE: Too much doggie anger!!
 

You can't reason with this person as he likes to inhale his own fumes.

RE: Too much doggie anger!!
 

lol that's the pot calling the kettle black.

RE: Too much doggie anger!!
 

I see that he (bigg~Birdd) tends to me standoffish and unwilling to talk... maybe we should throw him and the deer doggers who are unwilling to talk into one room and let them have at each other.. maybe sell tickets and donate it all to the hunters for the hungry program or to the disabled veterens hunts that I have been involved in... but those two groups are different topics.

You have to take into account that the above mentioned person is the same one who totes on a public forum about his illegal actions or justice in his mind, that he endorses and or alledgedlly participates in. When questioned about said activities he refuses to respond, but yet even other non deer dog hunters who have hd problems and are unhappy and are seeking resolutions have commented that those actions are unethical in themself and would put him in the same pot... so there is a frew pot calling the kettle black on here...

none the less all of the bickering and moaning and shouting amongst the two groups will cause nothign but to have effects that neither groups want to see,but will help the antis with their agendas.....

Rick I am glad to see your one of the ones on here that are being open minded and willing to talk to those that share the open mindedness from all sides. I know that you may/have had some direct issues with the SLOB deer dog hunters, but I am sure that like many of us on here you have had issues with SLOB non deer dog hunters as well and you know that neither side have virgin white backgrounds. I would like to chat some on the phone with you in regards to this and a few other things.. when is good for you... I am leaving for New York this aternoon/evening and will be back Sunday evening so after that is good...

Justin

RE: Too much doggie anger!!
 

Maybe if you had experienced some of the frustrations that us non dog hunters havegone through with these dog hunters, then you would understand.

As to the remark about SLOB non dog hunters, Huh??? I don't ever remember a bunch of men hunters doing a man drive on private property and bothering my hunt. What else would make us SOB non dog hunters? If you are talking about poachers, you are talking about apples and oranges sir. These folks are down right criminals. I don't put dog hunters in that category. I consider them more a pain in theass, selfish and inconsiderate.

I will admit to being a strong supporter of property rights! To me anything short of an emergency treks on private property is trespassing period!

RE: Too much doggie anger!!
 

Oh well... it was nice while it lasted.

RE: Too much doggie anger!!
 

The solution will have to be a compromise -- and it will also have to include clarification of existing and new laws as well as appropriate penalties and enforcement. The loopholes will have to be closed and / or defned.

The primary issue, in my mind, is intentionally running dogs across another's property without permission - whether fox hunting, deer hunting, or snipe hunting - it doesn't matter. I think everyone will agree that dogs will occasionally stray onto unauthorized land - stuff happens and I think most land owners would be tolerant if it was an occasional issue. That is one loophole that needs to be closed - increase enforcement and have progressively stiffer penalties for repeat violators... the key word being REPEAT violators.

Legitimate deer-doggers shouldn't have any problem with this, if they are conscientious about running their dogs on their land and respecting property rights of others -- but those that make a habit of running their dogs on other people's land should have to face the music.

RE: Too much doggie anger!!
 

Well said, the landscape of VA has changed a great deal and the laws and regs need to catch up.

RE: Too much doggie anger!!
 

vulture...

If you would take a minute to read all of my posts on all the threads regarding this subject(forgive me I do post on seveal other boards so I might not have put all of it on here) you will see that I grew up a still hunter and am still a huge still hunter, I spend countless hours putting in food plots, scouting and shed hunting, moving and placing stands and all things that go with it and so on, not o mention the money I spend for the purpose of still hunting. I have had numerous hunts disturbed by rouge dogs and whole packs that were chasing deer and or foxes and oncea coyote. I know whats its like to sit thee and during the golden hour before sunset to have the silence broken and a evening shot to hell. I have also been still hunting and had dogs come through and not too long later had other deer that were bumped by the dogs come sneaking by heading back the way the dogs came from and gotten to harvest them. so YES I do know what he is talking about.

I also know the amont of money that I spend on my dogs such as food (which I am a dealer and it is still insane the cost of it) kennel up keep, meds and wormers (just finished my monthly worming and it costs me about $60 just to worm them to keep them healthy) plus rabies and other vet bills. Plus the tracking equipment costs and upkeep etc etc... not to mention the gas involved in that as well.. all in the of season which is jan thourgh nov.. plus the time I spend with pups in rabbit and fox pens trying to strart them but keep them from picking up bad habits. I do have about half of my dogs who will run the hair off of a fox or a yote so I will take them out and fox hunt them during the summer but generally when oct gets here mine are in the pen until opening day because thats the way it is suppose to be.

I am all for a sit down and reach a middle ground approach (once again refer to my other posts). I see you and many others say this but what have you done toward that other than just type it. Have you taken time to speak to local landowners both that allow hunting (all types) and those that dont, have you talked to other still hunters and still hunting groups in your area? What about dog hunters one at a time and or in group settings? WHat about your local consevation officer and state biologist? I have done a few things in every one of these questions... not saying I have talked to everyone by anymeans but I have made a start... and did this back at the end of last simmer when I started doing this and I am continuing to do so. All of this with the intent to have our own little focus groups to reach middle ground. I am also workign on putting a still hunt only club together and have some land leads to go with.. some with no dog hunting near them and some with very little dog pressure around, once I see i have a group of good and sincere people I will move forward with that/. I have run a rather large club so I already have most of the things in place except people. Rick has actually been on one of the tracts I am going to go after.

Justin

RE: Too much doggie anger!!
 

Peace out guys... I am walking out the door to Tonawanda NY for the week end.... you all try to play niceand not tear the boards down.. I will pick up the civilized discussions when I get back....