Question For Oklahoma Hunters
12-28-2006, 07:22 PM
#11
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 258
RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
ORIGINAL: davs2601
Is anyone planning on attending the meetings. I thought I had read on the departments site that sportsmen could attend.
Is anyone planning on attending the meetings. I thought I had read on the departments site that sportsmen could attend.
If we stop/dont show up, the dept could stop the meetings and just do whatever w/o giving us much say.
I went to one several yrs ago and they handed out all the proposals, explained them, allowed comments to be made, allowed you to write comments on paper and submit them, and said thanks for coming. I cant say Ive seen any thing become of it, but it at least allowed us sportmen to have our say. Thats been about 6 yrs ago and they were talking buck restrictions then. Its been talked about every yr since too. Ill be surprised if they ever do anything.
I am planning on going to the one here.
12-29-2006, 12:35 AM
#13
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Miami, Oklahoma
Posts: 422
RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
I am against the antler point restrictions because they are essentially 'high-grading' the younger deer. Let's say that the point restrictions will not let us harvest any deer with less than 3 points on either side. How does that protect all younger deer? It doesn't, it just takes out the best of the young deer. Granted, studies have shown that a spike can turn into a trophy when mature as well, but what about that 1.5 year old 12 point? Isthe spikegoing to get bigger than him? He will if the 12 point gets shot when he is a yearling.
On the other hand, what happens when there is an old buck that doesn't meet the antler point restriction requirements? The answer is...he is out there breeding does and passing his genes on! ...couple this with shooting the better bucks when they are younger and you are not improving the quality of the deer in OK, but, in effect, you are reducing the quality of the deer you see...and take.
What I would suggest is raising the price on a 'regular' buck tag to around $35-$40 and coming up with a 'mature' buck tag that sells for much less...say $7-$10. Those having a 'regular' buck tag can still shoot a trophy if the opportunity presents itself, but the hunters holding a 'mature' buck tag must have the deer they harvest meet certain requirements to be legal. These requirements would be that the deer must be (examples only)at least 4.5 years old, have antler base measurements >4 inches (there is a positive correlation between age and this meaurement) and have a certain dressed body weight that varies with the location from which the deer was harvested (SE Oklahoma deer are sometimes HALF the size of deer in other parts of the state). Having all or a combination of any 2 of these standards for being legal as requirements would probably suffice.
I just feel that the long-term effects of a antler-point restriction as a way to protect yearling deer would have adverse results in the long run. If you really want people to change the way they harvest, give them an incentive via their pocketbook and they will respond. If not, they are paying for that little buck and the Wildlife Department is getting some much-needed, additionalrevenue.
On the other hand, what happens when there is an old buck that doesn't meet the antler point restriction requirements? The answer is...he is out there breeding does and passing his genes on! ...couple this with shooting the better bucks when they are younger and you are not improving the quality of the deer in OK, but, in effect, you are reducing the quality of the deer you see...and take.
What I would suggest is raising the price on a 'regular' buck tag to around $35-$40 and coming up with a 'mature' buck tag that sells for much less...say $7-$10. Those having a 'regular' buck tag can still shoot a trophy if the opportunity presents itself, but the hunters holding a 'mature' buck tag must have the deer they harvest meet certain requirements to be legal. These requirements would be that the deer must be (examples only)at least 4.5 years old, have antler base measurements >4 inches (there is a positive correlation between age and this meaurement) and have a certain dressed body weight that varies with the location from which the deer was harvested (SE Oklahoma deer are sometimes HALF the size of deer in other parts of the state). Having all or a combination of any 2 of these standards for being legal as requirements would probably suffice.
I just feel that the long-term effects of a antler-point restriction as a way to protect yearling deer would have adverse results in the long run. If you really want people to change the way they harvest, give them an incentive via their pocketbook and they will respond. If not, they are paying for that little buck and the Wildlife Department is getting some much-needed, additionalrevenue.
12-29-2006, 05:32 AM
#14
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Western OK
Posts: 856
RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
"What I would suggest is raising the price on a 'regular' buck tag to around $35-$40 and coming up with a 'mature' buck tag that sells for much less...say $7-$10." Those having a 'regular' buck tag can still shoot a trophy if the opportunity presents itself, but the hunters holding a 'mature' buck tag must have the deer they harvest meet certain requirements to be legal. These requirements would be that the deer must be (examples only)at least 4.5 years old, have antler base measurements >4 inches (there is a positive correlation between age and this meaurement) and have a certain dressed body weight that varies with the location from which the deer was harvested (SE Oklahoma deer are sometimes HALF the size of deer in other parts of the state). Having all or a combination of any 2 of these standards for being legal as requirements would probably suffice."
The future of hunting in OK is to get more young folks involved in the sport. Dramatically raising the price of tags is guaranteed to have the opposite effect.Your proposal is much too complicated to administer.
You are opposed to minimum antler requirements. Yes, there are some olderbucks with inferior antlers breeding does. But there are not enough of them to matter. I am in agreement with the DNR about lowering the number of bucks killedto two. That is probably what will happen. Yes, there is a dearth of public land to hunt in OK. Get after your state representative anddemand that some of the hundreds of millions in budget surplus be used to purchase land for hunting and other recreational use.
The future of hunting in OK is to get more young folks involved in the sport. Dramatically raising the price of tags is guaranteed to have the opposite effect.Your proposal is much too complicated to administer.
You are opposed to minimum antler requirements. Yes, there are some olderbucks with inferior antlers breeding does. But there are not enough of them to matter. I am in agreement with the DNR about lowering the number of bucks killedto two. That is probably what will happen. Yes, there is a dearth of public land to hunt in OK. Get after your state representative anddemand that some of the hundreds of millions in budget surplus be used to purchase land for hunting and other recreational use.
12-29-2006, 10:25 AM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,598
RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
ORIGINAL: USFWC
I am against the antler point restrictions because they are essentially 'high-grading' the younger deer. Let's say that the point restrictions will not let us harvest any deer with less than 3 points on either side. How does that protect all younger deer? It doesn't, it just takes out the best of the young deer. Granted, studies have shown that a spike can turn into a trophy when mature as well, but what about that 1.5 year old 12 point? Isthe spikegoing to get bigger than him? He will if the 12 point gets shot when he is a yearling.
On the other hand, what happens when there is an old buck that doesn't meet the antler point restriction requirements? The answer is...he is out there breeding does and passing his genes on! ...couple this with shooting the better bucks when they are younger and you are not improving the quality of the deer in OK, but, in effect, you are reducing the quality of the deer you see...and take.
What I would suggest is raising the price on a 'regular' buck tag to around $35-$40 and coming up with a 'mature' buck tag that sells for much less...say $7-$10. Those having a 'regular' buck tag can still shoot a trophy if the opportunity presents itself, but the hunters holding a 'mature' buck tag must have the deer they harvest meet certain requirements to be legal. These requirements would be that the deer must be (examples only)at least 4.5 years old, have antler base measurements >4 inches (there is a positive correlation between age and this meaurement) and have a certain dressed body weight that varies with the location from which the deer was harvested (SE Oklahoma deer are sometimes HALF the size of deer in other parts of the state). Having all or a combination of any 2 of these standards for being legal as requirements would probably suffice.
I just feel that the long-term effects of a antler-point restriction as a way to protect yearling deer would have adverse results in the long run. If you really want people to change the way they harvest, give them an incentive via their pocketbook and they will respond. If not, they are paying for that little buck and the Wildlife Department is getting some much-needed, additionalrevenue.
I am against the antler point restrictions because they are essentially 'high-grading' the younger deer. Let's say that the point restrictions will not let us harvest any deer with less than 3 points on either side. How does that protect all younger deer? It doesn't, it just takes out the best of the young deer. Granted, studies have shown that a spike can turn into a trophy when mature as well, but what about that 1.5 year old 12 point? Isthe spikegoing to get bigger than him? He will if the 12 point gets shot when he is a yearling.
On the other hand, what happens when there is an old buck that doesn't meet the antler point restriction requirements? The answer is...he is out there breeding does and passing his genes on! ...couple this with shooting the better bucks when they are younger and you are not improving the quality of the deer in OK, but, in effect, you are reducing the quality of the deer you see...and take.
What I would suggest is raising the price on a 'regular' buck tag to around $35-$40 and coming up with a 'mature' buck tag that sells for much less...say $7-$10. Those having a 'regular' buck tag can still shoot a trophy if the opportunity presents itself, but the hunters holding a 'mature' buck tag must have the deer they harvest meet certain requirements to be legal. These requirements would be that the deer must be (examples only)at least 4.5 years old, have antler base measurements >4 inches (there is a positive correlation between age and this meaurement) and have a certain dressed body weight that varies with the location from which the deer was harvested (SE Oklahoma deer are sometimes HALF the size of deer in other parts of the state). Having all or a combination of any 2 of these standards for being legal as requirements would probably suffice.
I just feel that the long-term effects of a antler-point restriction as a way to protect yearling deer would have adverse results in the long run. If you really want people to change the way they harvest, give them an incentive via their pocketbook and they will respond. If not, they are paying for that little buck and the Wildlife Department is getting some much-needed, additionalrevenue.
I can agree with you to a point. Some good young bucks will be killed before they reach maturity, but many, many more that would have been killed before they reach maturity will survive. This is what we're trying to achieve. A better overall quality deer herd with more mature bucks and a closer buck to doe ratio. I don't think that it would be very feasible to expect most hunters, especially young hunters, to be able to determine the age of a deer on the hoof much less the circumference of the antler base. What happens if someone with a "mature buck tag" shoots a buck that doesn't meet these requirements? In my opinion, it's too confusing.
A simple antler restriction of 4 on one side would do wonders for the amount of mature bucks in the herd. If people want meat, they'll start killing does and not young bucks. That's what needs to happen if you ask me.
12-29-2006, 11:55 AM
#16
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Miami, Oklahoma
Posts: 422
RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
ORIGINAL: alsaqr
The future of hunting in OK is to get more young folks involved in the sport. Dramatically raising the price of tags is guaranteed to have the opposite effect.Your proposal is much too complicated to administer.
The future of hunting in OK is to get more young folks involved in the sport. Dramatically raising the price of tags is guaranteed to have the opposite effect.Your proposal is much too complicated to administer.
ORIGINAL: alsaqr
You are opposed to minimum antler requirements. Yes, there are some olderbucks with inferior antlers breeding does. But there are not enough of them to matter. I am in agreement with the DNR about lowering the number of bucks killedto two. That is probably what will happen.
You are opposed to minimum antler requirements. Yes, there are some olderbucks with inferior antlers breeding does. But there are not enough of them to matter. I am in agreement with the DNR about lowering the number of bucks killedto two. That is probably what will happen.
I know of some hunting clubs that have implementeda similartypeof management for years and they are paying for it now. One had an antler restriction of 8-points and, I believe it was, a 16-inch spread since the 70's, now they have a bunch of mature, 15-inch, 7-pointers running around. Doesn't sound like something I want on my hunting grounds.
If the antler point restriction is implemented, people will see the initial positive effects and be oblivious to the long term problems that it will be causing. This will make it harder than heck to change when this negative trend begins to show up in the herd and by the time it has become a visible-enough problem for them to want to make a change, it may be beyond 'easy' repair by a change in policy.
12-29-2006, 12:21 PM
#17
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Miami, Oklahoma
Posts: 422
RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
ORIGINAL: John Deer
I don't think that it would be very feasible to expect most hunters, especially young hunters, to be able to determine the age of a deer on the hoof much less the circumference of the antler base. What happens if someone with a "mature buck tag" shoots a buck that doesn't meet these requirements? In my opinion, it's too confusing.
I don't think that it would be very feasible to expect most hunters, especially young hunters, to be able to determine the age of a deer on the hoof much less the circumference of the antler base. What happens if someone with a "mature buck tag" shoots a buck that doesn't meet these requirements? In my opinion, it's too confusing.
This is really not that complicated, especially compared to some regulations that are already in place.
12-29-2006, 02:20 PM
#18
Fork Horn
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 434
RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
They asked my dad to be on the board a couple years ago. I don't think the state did one thing that was recomended by the board for the following season. Oklahoma could have lots of big bucks running around if they would do it right. Lets face it though it's all about tag sales folks. I can't tell you how many deer I passed up this year. Have video of some real nice bucks less than 20 yards. I let them pass with hopes they survive gun season to be around next year. I drew my bow for the first time lastWednesday and shot a doe for the freezer.Special buck tags aren't going to work and point restrictions won't either. My 11 year old daughter got her first deer with a bow a couple weeks ago. It was a button buck. Are you going to penalize her for that? That won't help grow the sport for our kids. It should be a happy time for them whatever they shoot. The only way for our state to get bigger bucks is for everyone to pass up the smaller ones. I think what they should do is go to 2 bucks and give us more doe tags.
MC
MC
12-29-2006, 02:32 PM
#19
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: NW Oklahoma
Posts: 1,166
RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
The question I have, though is, how is going to 2 bucks going to help when the vast majority of bucks are killed in rifle season with a relatively few number of people who actually kill 3.
12-29-2006, 02:42 PM
#20
Fork Horn
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 434
RE: Question For Oklahoma Hunters
It wont help. The only way it will help is with the people who hunt all three seasons. I don't know if there is a way to fix that problem unless you do a antler restriction for rifle season. It's a known fact people who have no clue grab a gun during rifle season and head to the woods for the first time of the year in hopes one will run by. But you can't do that for just one method of hunting. One thing you need to consider is a trophy to one person may not be to another. And most people out during gun season really don't care what they shoot. The people who are really hunting for big horns won't shoot the nice basket rack that needs to get bigger.But the person who just got picked up by his buddies to go deer hunting sure will.
MC
MC