Critique a proposed coyote and varmint bullet/load
#1
Thread Starter
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,146
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From: NE Kansas
I see 55 gr. Hornaday V-max recommended a lot for the 22-250. I'm beginning to hand load and have a classic lee loader for that caliber, and Lee gives a starting load of H4895 using the supplied dipper. (unfortunately, i don't recall the exact grains)
Is that 55 gr. a good place to start? Lee also lists several other starting loads with various lighter bullets (40-55 grs.), and I could start with one of those. For the moment, I'm going to stick with that powder till I get the basics down.
The gun is a Savage Axis with a barrel twist listed as 1 in 12. I have gotten solid groups with Winchester 45 gr. jacketed hollow points in factory ammo previously.
I'm in eastern Kansas and would predict it would get most use on coyotes and woodchucks, maybe the occasional fox or bobcat.
Is that 55 gr. a good place to start? Lee also lists several other starting loads with various lighter bullets (40-55 grs.), and I could start with one of those. For the moment, I'm going to stick with that powder till I get the basics down.
The gun is a Savage Axis with a barrel twist listed as 1 in 12. I have gotten solid groups with Winchester 45 gr. jacketed hollow points in factory ammo previously.
I'm in eastern Kansas and would predict it would get most use on coyotes and woodchucks, maybe the occasional fox or bobcat.
#3
I agree with RR, the .22-250 is on the "hot side" for cat and fox, especially for the short ranges at which they are taken when called. It's a great coyote round, and very satisfying when running out long on colony varmints, but a little much horsepower for short work on fox or cats. I'm not one to condone anyone calling fox or cats if they aren't saving hides. Coyote hunting without fur harvesting is a different game - coyotes cause far worse livestock and wildlife depredation impact than fox or cat, so coyotes can and should be hunted to help balance the ecosystem. But if a guy is hunting fox or cat, I consider it wasteful if the hides aren't kept and sold. If you don't want to go to the trouble of selling for yourself, find a local furharvester and give the hides to them.
H4895 will run fine under 50grn pills in .22-250. H380, H3031, W760, and IMR4064 are other good options if you don't find a happy load for 4895. H380 is kind of the go-to powder for most folks. I've tended to load a lot more 4895, 3031, and 4064 especially, because I run it primarily in .30-06 and have a lot on hand.
H4895 will run fine under 50grn pills in .22-250. H380, H3031, W760, and IMR4064 are other good options if you don't find a happy load for 4895. H380 is kind of the go-to powder for most folks. I've tended to load a lot more 4895, 3031, and 4064 especially, because I run it primarily in .30-06 and have a lot on hand.
#4
If you use a V max you are going to mess up a lot of fur. I've never shot a 22-250 but have shot a lot of .222 with around 3/4 of the 22-250 velocity. I'd use a Deer bullet, something with controlled expansion that doesn't fragment. Old school pointed soft point bullets usually are hole in hole out when I shoot a Fox. There are even better bullets around now, I just happen to have a lifetime supply of old school Norma pointed soft point boat tail bullets to reload.
Exploding animals may get old after the first few OH's and AH's.
Exploding animals may get old after the first few OH's and AH's.
#6
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,818
Likes: 1
From: Eastern wv
I'd first try a controlled expansion bullet around 60 gr for lead, or 50 in a solid copper, stay off the shoulder and should do ok for coyotes, 22-250 is just too much for fox and cats. best fox gun I ever used was a 22 mag with 50 gr ammo. have heard professional coyote/cat hunters sing praises for the 17 centerfires.
RR
RR
#7
I've shot a lot of Fox. Pick your shot, between the shoulder and the guts. The object is through the ribs and hopefully the bullet makes it all the way through without tumbling or fragmenting. Keeping a picture in your mind of where your bullet is going in and where it is likely to exit also helps. Gut shooting a Fox is almost guaranteed to make a mess and there is something about the smell of a gut shot Fox, Yote, Cat or most any predator for that matter, that gags me up pretty bad, I avoid it. Sometimes a bullet just catches a rib the wrong way and it can tear things up some, though not often.
I think hollow points or similar bullets may be a large part of the issue. I've used a .308 Core Lokt, 7x57 pointed soft point and a .222 pointed soft point on Fox without much issue and surprisingly the larger calibers often do less damage than the .222. Best guess is it is hole in and hole out before the bullet has a chance to deform/expand any or much. I've never tried FMJ and gave up on hollow points quick in my .222. Shot placement, using the right bullet and excessive damage is negligible.
I think what the trick is, with high velocity bullets, is to use a bullet less likely to deform or fragment a lot if/when it hits a rib. And to shoot them through the lungs so the fluid wake (hydro static shock) is minimized.
For decades here Fox was shoot them when you see them, they were considered overpopulated. I'd take one at the end of my Deer or Hog hunt. I shot one young fox, not much bigger than a house Cat, side shot through the ribs/lungs with a .308 and it was hole in and hole out, no real damage to speak of.
I think hollow points or similar bullets may be a large part of the issue. I've used a .308 Core Lokt, 7x57 pointed soft point and a .222 pointed soft point on Fox without much issue and surprisingly the larger calibers often do less damage than the .222. Best guess is it is hole in and hole out before the bullet has a chance to deform/expand any or much. I've never tried FMJ and gave up on hollow points quick in my .222. Shot placement, using the right bullet and excessive damage is negligible.
I think what the trick is, with high velocity bullets, is to use a bullet less likely to deform or fragment a lot if/when it hits a rib. And to shoot them through the lungs so the fluid wake (hydro static shock) is minimized.
For decades here Fox was shoot them when you see them, they were considered overpopulated. I'd take one at the end of my Deer or Hog hunt. I shot one young fox, not much bigger than a house Cat, side shot through the ribs/lungs with a .308 and it was hole in and hole out, no real damage to speak of.
Last edited by MudderChuck; 01-01-2018 at 02:13 PM.
#8
You'll get up to about the 64grn Berger with a 1:12", I've been hit and miss with the 69grn SMK in the 22-250, even flattening primers and tolerating a sticky bolt lift. long mono-metal bullets like the 62 TTSX might be on the "no-go" side of the line as well. There is no reason to use heavier bullets for the game you are hunting anyway. A 50 v-max is my go-to for coyotes in 223rem and 22-250, although it can make a mess on smaller cats and fox. As has been mentioned, a controlled expansion bullet will be your friend for these small furbearers.
#9
Thread Starter
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,146
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From: NE Kansas
Thanks for all the help on this.
One thing I do see will be relevant down the road, perhaps. Lyman's book gives a handload for a 22 hornet velocity. I'm still a beginner with handloading, and I'm not quite ready to get it going with that, but it has definite possibilities later.
One thing I do see will be relevant down the road, perhaps. Lyman's book gives a handload for a 22 hornet velocity. I'm still a beginner with handloading, and I'm not quite ready to get it going with that, but it has definite possibilities later.



