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I NEED MY BRETHREN'S HELP!!!

Old 03-02-2007, 09:43 PM
  #1  
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Default I NEED MY BRETHREN'S HELP!!!

I'm a mountain boy from N. Idaho. I have hunted big game my whole life, and I have had limited access to prairie puppy's in the past.

I havebeen shooting my entire life and I now want a new challenge! I want to get a long range rifle that I can really reach out and touch something. I want to practice so I can maybe reach out4 or 500 meters effectively, and maybe farther if I can ever get good enough!

I know these questions have been answered in these forums, but it's hard to form a lot of the answers around my specific tastes and needs.So please offer me the wisdom you all have from experience!.

I am going to start travelling into Montana and am looking at a Savage .223 heavy barrel to sit next to me on the drive over. I can't spend more than 6 or 700 on the rifle unless you all want a newlysingle woman with half of Cameron's(me) stuff back on the "meat"market.

I have also looked at the Howa with the laminate stock with the thumbhole.

I like the .223 because it is inexpensive to buy ammunition for. What are my best options for the prairie puppies and also for yotel dogs in Idaho at closer ranges? What are the best inexpensive rifles that I can look for?

I have a savage .17 hmr heavy barrel...I love it and am more than willing to share pics of my setup for anyone. Is the .223 in this brand going to make me happy???

Thanks! Cameron

P.S. As I know as much as anyone....a good rifle is a fair, if not, a great trade off for a wife...or a lack there of a wife. However, my current "boss" is a little to hot and dipped way below her standards to marry me....so I think I need to milk this marriage as long as possible while I'm still able to wake up next to something super pretty. Otherwise this future rifle will cost me a loss of a wife and a lifetime of fugly, albeit, chubby womenly friends.....SO, I hope you all understand and forgive me for not giving up my wife for a sweeeeeeet varmint set-up!!!!
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Old 03-02-2007, 09:50 PM
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Default RE: I NEED MY BRETHREN'S HELP!!!

For long ranges like your talking i would say a .22-250 or .223 but the .223 is pushing it at that range. My .223 can hit something out that far with the right conditions but a .22-250 would be good all around for long range.
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:01 PM
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Default RE: I NEED MY BRETHREN'S HELP!!!

ORIGINAL: jake smith09

For long ranges like your talking i would say a .22-250 or .223 but the .223 is pushing it at that range. My .223 can hit something out that far with the right conditions but a .22-250 would be good all around for long range.

What's the cost of ammunition on this? I know my 17 HMR, for the size of the ammo, is pretty costly which causes me not to shoot it as much as I want. Is the .22-250 going to be expensive and hard to find?

What about a .243 or a 220 swift?

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Old 03-03-2007, 03:34 AM
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Default RE: I NEED MY BRETHREN'S HELP!!!

If I was in your shoes I would get a savage in .223 with a 1 in 9 twist. Just for the fact that it would work. Savage is a great for the money, and availablity of ammo would be a plus and barrel life would be good. 220 swift, .22-250, .243, 243 wssm, 25 wssm would all work but the .223 would probably "do" what you need. The other calibers shoot flatter and have more energy but may cost more money and mayhave shorter barrel life. If you get a fast twist rate then you can shoot heavier bullets that will have better performance at extended ranges. Personally I shoot a .22-250 (savage) and a .223 (AR) with a 1 in 8 but will probably go with a .243 or something for my next rifle. here is a little info on rate of twist somewhere. Good luck
[ul][*]1x7
Technically too tight of a twist for any .224 bullet widely available, including the 80 grain. Manufactured originally to stabilize SS109 and/or tracer ammo, but further military testing has shown other twists to be superior. Some of the very heavy custom stuff (87 grain?) may work well, but why?[*]1x8
Great twist for 69-80 grain bullets. Sierra once informed me that the perfect twist for their 80gr was 1x8.2xxxxx (blah blah blah big long engineers explanation followed).[*]1x9
Good all around twist ratio. Best suited for 52-69 grain, but either end of the envelope will be questionable.[*]1x10
Practically the same as 1x9, but favors the lighter side a little more.[*]1x12
Great for the 40-52 grain bullets. Most often found on bolt action rifles as their primary use is varminting. All right for the 55 grain, but not the best.[*]1x14
If you want to under stabilize the .224 bullet, use this twist. Useless except for tumbling effect it causes upon bullet impact. IMHO, better to shoot straight with a good HP bullet as your chances to hit are better and damage will most likely be greater also. [/ul]









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Old 03-03-2007, 03:49 AM
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Default RE: I NEED MY BRETHREN'S HELP!!!

ORIGINAL: RJH

If I was in your shoes I would get a savage in .223 with a 1 in 9 twist. Just for the fact that it would work. Savage is a great for the money, and availablity of ammo would be a plus and barrel life would be good. 220 swift, .22-250, .243, 243 wssm, 25 wssm would all work but the .223 would probably "do" what you need. The other calibers shoot flatter and have more energy but may cost more money and mayhave shorter barrel life. If you get a fast twist rate then you can shoot heavier bullets that will have better performance at extended ranges. Personally I shoot a .22-250 (savage) and a .223 (AR) with a 1 in 8 but will probably go with a .243 or something for my next rifle. here is a little info on rate of twist somewhere. Good luck
[ul][*][/size]1x7
[/size]
Technically too tight of a twist for any .224 bullet widely available, including the 80 grain. Manufactured originally to stabilize SS109 and/or tracer ammo, but further military testing has shown other twists to be superior. Some of the very heavy custom stuff (87 grain?) may work well, but why?[*]1x8
Great twist for 69-80 grain bullets. Sierra once informed me that the perfect twist for their 80gr was 1x8.2xxxxx (blah blah blah big long engineers explanation followed).[*]1x9
Good all around twist ratio. Best suited for 52-69 grain, but either end of the envelope will be questionable.[*]1x10
Practically the same as 1x9, but favors the lighter side a little more.[*]1x12
Great for the 40-52 grain bullets. Most often found on bolt action rifles as their primary use is varminting. All right for the 55 grain, but not the best.[*]1x14
If you want to under stabilize the .224 bullet, use this twist. Useless except for tumbling effect it causes upon bullet impact. IMHO, better to shoot straight with a good HP bullet as your chances to hit are better and damage will most likely be greater also. [/ul]
Wow....I seriously want to thank you for taking the time to give me such a detailed explanation of the twists! While I have been looking I have seen the 1 in 12 and 1 in 14, but in all truth I had no clue what the difference even if there was a difference. With my higher caliber weapons, I have never had to really concern myself with that sort of thing because I know I wouldn't find a good shot farther than about 100 yards out.

The savage that I was looking at actually was one with a 1 in 12, but it was the cheaper model. For 80 dollars more you can get one with a 1 in 10 I believe, or it was a1 in 9 I thinkis what it was. I'm going to go with that one now! So in retrospect...you costs me a few extra dollars, but for accuracy and barrel life span's sake...I thank you for that!

Sincerely grateful,

~Cam

People like RJH make these forums worth the time to make a discussion.





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Old 03-03-2007, 06:59 PM
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Default RE: I NEED MY BRETHREN'S HELP!!!

The .22-250 round isnt usually hard to find in most places and it usually runs about $20 a box. .223 ammo is really cheap because the military uses .223 for their main caliber so there is always army surplus and alot of it. Its about the easiest ammo to find. Go with whichever one you want. I would say get the .223 because I know from experience you wont be shooting as far as you say your going to and if you have to shoot that far it can be done with a .223. Bottom line, .223's are cheap as is there ammo and there is alot of both and they can shoot very long ranges if you know what your doing. .243 is a good round but if your going to shoot alot its going to punish your shoulder and so would a .22-250. A .220 swift is going to tend to get pushed around by the wind alot more so i wouldnt suggest using one for this range. A .223 would be a good choice!! And you asked if getting a Savage .223 would make you happy...... VERY. I have a Savage 10FP .223 Tactical(oooo theres that word again) and i love the thing to death. It was a $600 gun but i got it for $300 because it was about a year old and they lowered the price. Still shoots like anyone would wish for.
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Old 03-03-2007, 07:29 PM
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Default RE: I NEED MY BRETHREN'S HELP!!!

ORIGINAL: jake smith09

.223 ammo is really cheap because the military uses .223 for their main caliber so there is always army surplus and alot of it. Its about the easiest ammo to find.
Normally, this is a true statement, but not right now. I don't have time to get into it right now, but will chime in later if no one else does. Care to take a stab at it jake? Give you a hint............there is a war going on right now.
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Old 03-03-2007, 11:12 PM
  #8  
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Default RE: I NEED MY BRETHREN'S HELP!!!

Hey, I just want to thank all of you for taking the time to point me in the right direction. When you spend the kind of money that it takes to buy a new gun/scope/accessories, it is a good thing to not only research professional sources, but also consumer users that are using the firearms in the same way you plan on to.

Problem is, sometimes it is hard to get the consumer info because there are a lot of people that would rather take the time to give a smart a** answer and try to make you feel small because you might not know as much as them.

It shows a lot about the kind of people that shoot and hunt....I find tons of helpful and sincere folks on these forums.

Try getting good info on a paintball forum....www.paintball.com for example. It's ridiculous!

Sincerely....thank you all again for your help!

~Cam
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Old 03-04-2007, 01:47 AM
  #9  
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Default RE: I NEED MY BRETHREN'S HELP!!!

Yes the .223 will work ok and if you shoot enough to know your rifle and round you choose. Now for Jake*** what are you talking about ,the .22-250 and .243 hurting your shoulder??? The swift getting blowed around by the wind ?? Well first off lets talk about the .224 bullet, isnt the bullet in your .223 the same as the swift and the 22-250.Of course it is so why would the wind blow the swift and not the 22-250 and .223?
Now for the recoil issue, If a .224/.243 calibur cartridge is hurting your shoulder when you shoot it, maybe you need never mind!!! Have fun.

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Old 03-04-2007, 08:16 PM
  #10  
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Default RE: I NEED MY BRETHREN'S HELP!!!

ORIGINAL: jake smith09

The .22-250 round isnt usually hard to find in most places and it usually runs about $20 a box. .223 ammo is really cheap because the military uses .223 for their main caliber so there is always army surplus and alot of it. Its about the easiest ammo to find. Go with whichever one you want. I would say get the .223 because I know from experience you wont be shooting as far as you say your going to and if you have to shoot that far it can be done with a .223. Bottom line, .223's are cheap as is there ammo and there is alot of both and they can shoot very long ranges if you know what your doing. .243 is a good round but if your going to shoot alot its going to punish your shoulder and so would a .22-250. A .220 swift is going to tend to get pushed around by the wind alot more so i wouldnt suggest using one for this range. A .223 would be a good choice!! And you asked if getting a Savage .223 would make you happy...... VERY. I have a Savage 10FP .223 Tactical(oooo theres that word again) and i love the thing to death. It was a $600 gun but i got it for $300 because it was about a year old and they lowered the price. Still shoots like anyone would wish for.
Fuzzyballs44 - Just take this post and disregard everything he claims to be factual.

If you are going to be consistenly shooting 400-500m, you are going to be better off to bump up to the 243.
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