Scope help plz!
09-29-2011, 03:09 PM
#1
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 178
Scope help plz!
I have a VX-3 3.5-10 x 50mm matte. The last couple years I have elected not to use the gun after its sporadic shooting. Last year on the range the bullets were spayed all over the target. The browning abolt checked out fine so I narrowed it down to the rings or the scope. I just purchased brand new rings and while removing the old i realized the bases were possibly loose.
After thinking I fixed the problem, I mounted the Leupold and headed to the range. 1st two shots were from 25 yrds and grouped nicely 2 inches right and a inch low. I then backed to 50 yrds 2 more shots grouped nicley, but 2 inches right and 4 inches higher than the 25 yrd group. I backed up to 100 yrds and shot 4... nothing hit the paper. Went back to 25 and 50 and hit same spots i hit at the distances before I went to 100yrds. The 3 inch high difference at a 25 yrd increment has me very worried, then not even touching paper at 100 has me perplexed.... Is this a scope issue? It should shoot the same from 3.5-10 power correct?
ill try to post a picture of target if I can figure it out
After thinking I fixed the problem, I mounted the Leupold and headed to the range. 1st two shots were from 25 yrds and grouped nicely 2 inches right and a inch low. I then backed to 50 yrds 2 more shots grouped nicley, but 2 inches right and 4 inches higher than the 25 yrd group. I backed up to 100 yrds and shot 4... nothing hit the paper. Went back to 25 and 50 and hit same spots i hit at the distances before I went to 100yrds. The 3 inch high difference at a 25 yrd increment has me very worried, then not even touching paper at 100 has me perplexed.... Is this a scope issue? It should shoot the same from 3.5-10 power correct?
ill try to post a picture of target if I can figure it out
09-29-2011, 05:04 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,186
Don't give up hope ! Try this .... set up a very large, clean "target". Something like a large white "project" board or poster board like school kids use, or a big piece of card board such as an appliance box. I would not touch anything and I'd try at 50 yards again ... using the same ammo as before. Shoot 3 shots carefully aimed at the center of the board. I'd suggest using a 3" diameter orange sticky dot as a bull. And time the shots far enough apart to let the barrel cool down.
Adjust the scope to move the center of the "group" to the center of bull .... if your scope is 1/4" per click, which I think Leupold's are .... it'll take 2 clicks at 50 yards to move it about 1/4". If you run out of adjustment, you likely need to shim the mount.
Next, put the target at 100 yards. Aim dead center .... and fire another carefully aimed 3 shot group. Don't get all hyped up about where the shots hit (yet). You are looking for a decent triangle, even if it is rather large, centered roughly around the bull. Continue to adjust the scope to center the group around the bull. If it'll center around the bull consistently you are probably good to go.
If the group is scattering rounds in some weird way ... problem is not yet solved .. and I have nothing to advise except a trip to the gun shop .... or try swapping out the scope.
In my opinion, if the group is rather triangular and say 2.5 MOA +, I'd call it pretty good ... but I'd try at least 2-3 different loads to see if I could find a better match for that rifle. Most factory grade rifles these days, if they are in good shape will do 2 MOA or so.
Example: My good buddy E.R.'s 30.06 Spr. BAR grouped Remington Express 150 Gr. Core-Lokt about as lousy as I have ever seen a long rifle group a factory load. But he did himself in from the get-go because he'd shoot only one round then adjust. So after about 70 rounds he had made essentially no progress, had a target board with holes all over the place, and was totally disgusted. I calmed him down and fired a 3 shot group, which to my surprise was at least 6-7 MOA. I fired another 3 shot group figuring it was me. Same result. Nice triangle, but huge. Until I showed him this, he figured buggered rifle or serious scope problem (Ziess Conquest). So I sent him home to pick up a couple of different factory loads for us to try the next week, hoping we'd find one that would group.
He came to the range with 10 different loads .... including some darn high dollar stuff. After trying each of these, 3 different factory loads grouped about 1.5 MOA +/- consistently, and 1 of the 3 grouped right at 1 MOA (Federal Premium 180 Gr. Nosler Partition). We tried that same ammo 4 times, 3-shot groups each time. The largest we had was just over 1 MOA, with the smallest just under 1 MOA. Eddie was thrilled and much relieved. After centering this BAR with this load at 2" high at 100, we shot at 200 .... it was essentially dead on. So for grins, I tried the Core-Lokt stuff at 200 yards too. Only 1 of the 3 rounds even cut the sight-in target.
It just so happened that he was working with a bad match for his rifle from the start. He had chosen that load because it did so well in a bolt action that he had. Makes sense, but goes to show that rifles are different animals from one another. That might be your case too. It'll take some more time at the range to know for sure.
Good luck and I'd be interested to know what you come up with.
Adjust the scope to move the center of the "group" to the center of bull .... if your scope is 1/4" per click, which I think Leupold's are .... it'll take 2 clicks at 50 yards to move it about 1/4". If you run out of adjustment, you likely need to shim the mount.
Next, put the target at 100 yards. Aim dead center .... and fire another carefully aimed 3 shot group. Don't get all hyped up about where the shots hit (yet). You are looking for a decent triangle, even if it is rather large, centered roughly around the bull. Continue to adjust the scope to center the group around the bull. If it'll center around the bull consistently you are probably good to go.
If the group is scattering rounds in some weird way ... problem is not yet solved .. and I have nothing to advise except a trip to the gun shop .... or try swapping out the scope.
In my opinion, if the group is rather triangular and say 2.5 MOA +, I'd call it pretty good ... but I'd try at least 2-3 different loads to see if I could find a better match for that rifle. Most factory grade rifles these days, if they are in good shape will do 2 MOA or so.
Example: My good buddy E.R.'s 30.06 Spr. BAR grouped Remington Express 150 Gr. Core-Lokt about as lousy as I have ever seen a long rifle group a factory load. But he did himself in from the get-go because he'd shoot only one round then adjust. So after about 70 rounds he had made essentially no progress, had a target board with holes all over the place, and was totally disgusted. I calmed him down and fired a 3 shot group, which to my surprise was at least 6-7 MOA. I fired another 3 shot group figuring it was me. Same result. Nice triangle, but huge. Until I showed him this, he figured buggered rifle or serious scope problem (Ziess Conquest). So I sent him home to pick up a couple of different factory loads for us to try the next week, hoping we'd find one that would group.
He came to the range with 10 different loads .... including some darn high dollar stuff. After trying each of these, 3 different factory loads grouped about 1.5 MOA +/- consistently, and 1 of the 3 grouped right at 1 MOA (Federal Premium 180 Gr. Nosler Partition). We tried that same ammo 4 times, 3-shot groups each time. The largest we had was just over 1 MOA, with the smallest just under 1 MOA. Eddie was thrilled and much relieved. After centering this BAR with this load at 2" high at 100, we shot at 200 .... it was essentially dead on. So for grins, I tried the Core-Lokt stuff at 200 yards too. Only 1 of the 3 rounds even cut the sight-in target.
It just so happened that he was working with a bad match for his rifle from the start. He had chosen that load because it did so well in a bolt action that he had. Makes sense, but goes to show that rifles are different animals from one another. That might be your case too. It'll take some more time at the range to know for sure.
Good luck and I'd be interested to know what you come up with.
Last edited by Mojotex; 09-29-2011 at 06:55 PM.
09-29-2011, 05:28 PM
#4
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 178
Thx for the response. Im shooting those cheap fusions. So Maybe it is the ammo. Just found it odd that they grouped well at 25 and 50 yrds, albiet 3 inches higher at 50 yrds... The lower shots by the bull are at 25 yrds the 4 that are grouped higher are at 50 yards, and nothing hit that target at 100 yrds
09-30-2011, 04:40 PM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,519
Maybe I missed it, but what caliber is this?
I had this problem in a 30-06 I had. For some reason it would shoot way higher at 100 yards than 25 and 50 yards. Then, at the same time I've shot other guns that grouped in nearly the same spot at 50 and 100 yards.
10-01-2011, 10:32 PM
#7
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
Why wouldn't you adjust the scope to hit dead center when you shot at either 25 or 50 yards? Then you could have avoided all of this. That's why they have those little adjustment knob thingies on the top and side of the scope.
10-06-2011, 02:24 PM
#9
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 105
When I start a new scope, I set a target at 25yds and zero the scope to dead center at 25yds. Then I move the target to 100yds and fire one shot. Should be fairly close to where you want. Next, get the rifle held solid and put the cross wires on the 100yd bullet hole. Hold it there and adjust the cross wires to where you want poi to be. Then just fine tune.
Shooting at 50yds serves no purpose. 25yd zero will put about any cartridge on the target at 100yds.
Shooting at 50yds serves no purpose. 25yd zero will put about any cartridge on the target at 100yds.
