You probably have a good idea about dumping htem into water to prevent over annealing or at least getting hot brass out of the work area, but brass isn't a very good heat conductor. Once you get your neck/shoulder annealed, the annealed portion isn't going to spread after removing the heat- the brass needs to be heated to a certain threshold before it anneals, the heat migrating through to the cooler brass will bring the temp well below that threshold.

I heard brass is an excellent conductor. Better than iron or aluminum. Its part copper right? I don't know for sure.

A couple of my guys run a time saver stroke sander which puts a grained finish on the doors and frames we build/sell....

We build out of Bronze, Brass, Stainless, ect.....

A #6 Satin finish requires a final hit with 180 grit.

We always have to be more careful with the brass, and the bronze, than with anything else because it heats up quickly and hold the heat longer. Sanding too much too fast will burn the finish and cause cause warpage.

Pretty hard to BS me on most thingsmetal.............

Rabsob, before the Internet, Roy Dunlap, gunsmith, said annealing took skill, brass has not changed, some of the brass I use was around when he published the information in his book on gunsmithing, 1950 + or - a few years.[/align][/align]If I thought the cases were brittle, lacked elasticity, had the wrong percentage of copper to zinc ratio, etc., I would neck-up 5 of the cases as in 280 Remington to 35 Whelen or 270 Winchester to 30/06, brittle brass that does not have elasticity will result in a high percentage of failure as in necking up nickel cases, when necking up nickel280 Remington to 35 Whelen, as many as 33% will split.[/align][/align]Split necks: something that is lost when reloading, the # ONE thing we are dealing with is a 'hot high pressure metal cutting gas', that can cut the bolt face if primers are unseating due to excessive head space, cut the throat and muzzle under normal useor cut the receiver like a cutting torch when there is a catastrophic failure of the case.Point being, how well does the case handle the heat and escaping gas? Would the results have been different had you loaded 10 cases with one different component likea slower burning powder like H4831 or H4350,if usingthe slower powder resulted in fewer or'no splits' it could be said the case had the ability to expand with the slower burning powder but couldnot tolerate the fast expansion caused by the faster powder, or, if you have multiple splits and cracks, did the escaping metal cutting gascut the necks?[/align][/align]To an extreme: I offered to form 25/06cases to be used in a 22/6MM Remington Improved chamber, seems the failure rate was 80 out of 100 when they tried 6MM Remington cases, there was nothing about their techniques or methods I agreed with but the influence of the Internet is overwhelming, they are using OatMeal, Cream of Wheat, Cheerios? Wheaties? and pistol powder, I believe the burningpistolpowder expandsfaster than the casesability toabsorb the expansion, and the unknown, 'meets and or exceeds' the receiver'meets' the requirement to absorb the shock, how closedid the pistol powder come to 'exceed' the ability of the receivers abilityto absorb the shock? I formed the cases with a +.020 shoulder to case head, this would allow die adjustment for head space and extra long necks, they choose not to use the cases because of the 25/06 head stamp, I had hoped they would size the cases so they would just chamberand trim, this would allow me to form cases that could be chambered and fire formed, I am waiting to see if they have reamers and dies.[/align][/align]The short fat case (WSM, WSSM)was to be the best way to shorten the action to make it more rigid (stronger) and sell more rifles, dies and ammo, it would appear nothing changed, case, bullet, primer and powder, the difference is in appearance, the cases are shorter and larger in diameter, this could require different thinking. The column of powder is larger in diameter, powders that have been around for years havebeen designed to work in cases long columns and small diameters, it would appear little thought has been given tothe change in column diameter and length of powder in the case.[/align][/align]Annealing: forget the Internet, but in real life I have talked with people about annealing with interesting results, two reloaders with a total of 60 years experience building rifles and reloading said they gave up after trying everything they read on the Internet, some of the advise cost one individual $200.00, long story, the other said he tried the 1" of water deal, My question was why stop at 1", why not run the water deep enough to come up to the shoulder, his reply, " Because the water boils at the point the heat comes in contact with the water" I explained to him that is called 'spheroid', meaning the case at that point was 212 degree F and the only way he could get the water to stay close to the case was to pressurise the air around the case, each increase ofl Lb. ofpressure increases the boiling point 3 degree (not an easy thing to do) or increase the boiling point of the coolant (water), both came to visit, I put together a project, I am not ambitious, convincing two people it can be done correctly is more than I started out to accomplish.[/align][/align]F. Guffey[/align][/align]

Ever smoke a case neck & shoulder for setting dies? It can get pretty warm on the digits. And that is just from the heat of a candle or match. Gotta agree it is a pretty good heat conductor.

Ok, so bascially, your saying everyone is dumb besides you. Am I correct? So what temperature do you think the neck is getting too with the water around it with direct flame to it? What temperature do you think it takes to anneal brass? Since we are all forgetting the internet besides what you say?

Your correct on the water statement. Bernoulli's principle has been around for a long time. But the water is acting as a heat sink. Why do you want the water to get up in temperature? Your want to only anneal the neck, why do you want to worry about the case body or the shoulders?

This is the method i've always used too...

Brass is made up of copper and tin, and annealing it after several fireings makes it last a lot longer. There's probably several ways to do it, but this way that's been workingfor me for the last 40+ years, so i'll stick with it.

DM

DM, again, Roy Dunlap said annealing took skill, he was a master gunsmith, I agree with him and yes, the old method works but RAFSOB does not need to be confused with methods and techniques that leave out so much information. The onlymethod missing is the one where a candle is used as a heat source, the candle is hot enough butthe time factor would render that method useless, we do have the 'hold ityour hand until it gets too hot to hold' method: 'heat them and throw them in a bucket' method: 'stand them in a pan of waterand tip themover' method. With thousands ofquestions and responses, it would seem someone would mentionthe advantage of working indim lite when annealing, it would seem the water boiling at the surface would have been observed and mentioned (unless the case was not getting hot enough), when annealing, time is never mentioned, RIFLE LOONEY's point is overlooked when he questions 'air cooling', heat travels to cold, annealing is about heat and controlling travel.

F. Guffey

http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

"Before starting,to anneal,choose adarkened place to see the true color, not in bright light"

[hr]

Why not just use a propane torch and tempilac paint, get it to the right temp, and call it a day? Make a jig to stick in you cordless screwdriver and rotate nice and even.


Why does everyone have to make it so complicated. The temps to anneal arewell known.

So far I have gotten a lot of good info on this subject. I never thought I would have to go this farin reloading, but as with so manythings in life there are manydifferent facets to consider. I have learneda lot andthank the many responses tomy problem.

I can see that the WSSM and WSM cases are going to need a little more tender loving care in my reloading process.


[hr]

fguffey,
I went to the link you provided and liked the article. I liked Ken Light's machine, but thought it was alittle beyond my modests means.

bigcountry,
I like your idea and can see itwill fit in my budget, thanks.