Their are probably some ways that this idea could be adjusted. Iam sure someone else could add to this idea and improve it. But the triple crown shoots could be like the world shoot and have a money class and a trophy class. The hunter money class could have a 40yd max with the same equipment rules as hunter trophy, or it could have higher average shots on the ranges and 35yd max. Their could even be a pay out for the class like the hunter money class at the world shoot. I think if it would get to the point where 1500 or 2000 dollars was being paid out in this class it might turn bad. This happened at the world shoot a few years ago. I think it paid 2800 to win the HC and about 3200 to win the PMR class. But with the way its done now in the HC money class seemed to have fixed that problem. As far as not being a member of the IBO to shoot. I think it is important to support the IBO and the NRA and the NWTF and other organizations the fight for what you believe in.Their is strenth in numbers and money and votes are the only thing the gonvernment listens to. But I do think their could be a one time deal were a person that was just trying 3d could shoot their first IBO shoot without being a member and their score wouldnt be posted. I think this is a good idea about this class. I would like to read some other ideas.

My cousion is shoting the local terinamates and they are bacicaly a copey of the IBO shoots.

this same question has come up there in the clubs he is in.

What some of them are thanking about is HC 1 @ 2.

what they are looking at is start off in eather class HC 1 will be just like it is now.

HC 2 would be ruled by the same rules but with a limmet where if you win more than 3 shoots in a year the next year you move up to Hc 1.

there bigest problem intell brand new shooters in comp with seasiond shotters.

Some things to consider when advocating mandatory "move up" out the HC - these are from the 2nd leg TC 2004.

1st - 60 or aprox 18% shot over 400

2nd - 130 or 40 % shot over 390

You will have to force 40% of the class to move up togive the 380 shooter a chance at the first couple pages!!

I think the reason many (even the upper level competitors) are in the class is they like the YARDAGE. The only way way I see to have a HC that gives newbies and the less competitive shooters a place to be comfortable is to split the class. Keep all rules the same INCLUDING max yardage but create 2 divisions.

"A" division would have limited cash payout and perhaps a further reduced entry fee.

"B" division would have same entry and payout as all other classes

JMHO

Steve

First i want to say i think this is great beacuse for once people are putting forth ideals for ALL SHOOTERS and not just themselves. This is what it's all about, TEAMWORK. We as the I.B.O. members are a team, as a team we defend our right to hunt, help new shooters and bring the kids into our sport. That said i would like to put forth some of my ideals. Hunter class is a GREAT class, it has brought in a lot of new shooters and has helped the I.B.O. more than a lot of people think. When this classwas first thought up i don't think anybody had a ideal how big it would get. It is one of our biggest classes and we need to keep these shooters and add more to their ranks. How do we do this and keep it fun for everybody and not just the people winning or shooting 415-425 scores. FLIGHT THE CLASS. Raise the fee to 35.00 and use the extra 5.00 for gift cert. Pull a number at the shoot so nobody knows what it is. Say you pull a #32 take 32 points from the top score at that shoot and that starts your second flight, do it again and that is where your third flight starts. The shooters in the top flight are shooting for awards and a chance for a national title, LEAVE IT THAT WAY. The shooters in the second and third flight get a certificate of achievement ( to put on the wall) and a cabalas gift cert. Three or more places for 2nd & 3rd flights. If people in the top flight want money move up, after all they are getting a chance at a national title that would be worth more to me than money. Now about moving up. I think you should move up into a class with the same equipment rules of the class you leave. Take M.B.R. class, who hunts with a long stabilizer, 2" fletch, and v-bars, equipment like this should be used in a target equipment class like ( M.O.) MALE OPEN, i left the B out because this equipment has nothing to do with bowhunting. There are 2.5 million people in this country who own archery equipment. Around 97% are bowhunters, these are the people we need to reach out to. When we get them some will continue to shoot bowhunting equipment and some will move to target class, we will have a place for everybody. Give H.C. and the people who shoot it the RESPECT they deserve. This is not a baby class or a beginners class, the average shot on a deer while hunting is 17 yards so a 35 yard max class is not a walk in the park for a lot of people Thanks for listening TRIPLETT

STEVE, I THINK YOU IDEA IS GREAT AND I LIKE IT. BUT I THINK WE NEED TO ALSO TRY TO THINK OF PROBLEMS THAT MIGHT ARISE WITH EVERY IDEA WE THINK OF, SO WE DONT HAVE A PROBLEM LATER. IF ITS OK, I WOULD LIKE TO PLAY DEVILS ADVOCATE. I DO FEEL AS THOUGH THIS SPLIT WOULD WORK WELL, BUT WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF EVERYONE DECIDES TO SHOOT IN THE DIVISION "B" WITH THE HIGHER PAYOUT? SHOULD EVERYONE START IN THE "A" CLASS THEN MOVE OUT? WHAT ABOUT THOSE WHO SHOULD PROBABLY BE IN "B" CLASS THAT WILL SHOOT IN THE "A" JUST BECAUSE THEY WILL BE MORE LIKELY TO GET IN THE MONEY, EVEN THOUGH THE PAYOUT IS LESS (A LOT OF A LITTLE IS MORE THAN NOTHING OF A LOT). I LIKE THE IDEA OF EQUAL PAYOUT AS OTHER CLASSES FOR THE "B". I ALSO LIKE THE FLIGHT IDEA AS WELL. BUT, WHAT DO WE START WITH TO SUGGEST CHANGES AND COME TO SOMETHING MORE DEFINATE? MAYBE KEN CAN ELABORATE MORE ON THIS BEFORE NELSONVILLE IF HE CAN OR AFTER, I DONT THINK THE BOARD MEETS UNTIL SEPTEMBER OR SO. I DO LIKE THE IDEA OF A SPLIT CLASS, WITH THE SAME CLASS RULES APPLYING AS THEY ARE NOW. BUT HOW DO WE ALL COME TO A CONCENSUS ON WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE. I REALIZE THAT I MAY NEVER BE ABLE TO PUT THE TIME AND EFFORT INTO BEING GOOD ENOUGH TO WIN ONE OF THESE THINGS. I WOULD HOWEVER LIKE TO AT LEAST FINISH IN THE TOP TEN ONCE AND A WHILE (OK, AT LEAST ONCE), BUT I ALSO DONT WANT THAT CLASS TAYLORED JUST TO ME TO GIVE ME THE ADVANTAGE. IF I GET THERE, I WANT IT TO BE ON MY OWN MERITS, AS I AM SURE THE REST OF YOU FEEL THE SAME WAY. WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS, A CLASS WHERE A NEWCOMER CAN SHOOT WITH HIS BUDDIES (BUT NOT COMPETE WITH THEM, AND NOT HAVE TO HAVE A MANDATORY MEMBERSHIP) WHO ARE REGULARS WITHOUT GETTING WHIPPED ON, THOSE WHO WANT THE HIGHER LEVEL OF COMPETITION TO BE ABLE TO SHOOT FOR MORE OF A PAYOUT THAN THE FIXED LIMIT. LETS KEEP THE SUGGESTIONS COMING, AND WE MAY DISCOVER SOMETHING. SOMEONE STATED EARLIER THAT THEY THINK THE MEMBERSHIP SHOULD BE REQUIRED, BUT YOU DONT PAY TIES TO A CHURCH WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT THEIR DOCTRINE IS, YOU GO TO A FEW MEETINGS TO SEE WHAT YOU THINK FIRST. NOW, THOSE OF US WHO ARE ALREADY MEMBERS WONT DROP OUR MEMBERSHIPS TO SHOOT THIS CLASS, I LIKE BEING A MEMBER, AND APPRECIATE IT VERY MUCH, BUT I REALLY LIKE THE MAGAZINE SUBSCRIPTION AS A PLUS. THANKS, BUTCHB

Why does the Hunter class have to change? Does everybody always have to be the winner? I have shot this class for 4 years and this year I have finally made it into the top 25%. I am very happy and to get there I have put in quite a bit of practice and going to local shoots. I know if I put more into it I could do even better possible even win a national event. That would be great, but until then I will keep on practicing and shooting my local shoots along with the IBO's shoot and I will someday be good enough to win. Enough about that. Does anyone know exactly what it takes to add in a little bit here and a little bit there to a class? I have read some very good ideas but no one has come up with a way to carry out these ideas. When you start adding flites and more awards that is great for some but still bad for others. It's all a vicious circle. While the way things are run now isn't perfect it works rather well, and until we have 350 national shoots a year there is still only going to be 3 national winners, a national champion, and a world champion. So for now until we win we'll just have to practice more and some luck never hurts either. See ya at Nelsonville.

TIM, AS FOR ME, ITS NOT ABOUT WINNING. ITS ABOUT BEING A LITTLE BIT MORE ACCESSABLE TO NEWCOMERS. I HAVE FRIENDS WHO WOULD LIKE TO SHOOT AT NELSONVILLE, BUT THEY DONT WANT TO LOOK BAD. I AM SURE, IF I COULD GET A COUPLE OF THESE GUYS TO SHOOT THERE, THE MEMBERSHIP WOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM FOR THEM, AND THEY WOULD START SHOOTING YEAR ROUND LIKE WE DO. THEY DONT FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THAT ASPECT OF IT, AND KNOWING THE TOP GUYS WILL BE SHOOTING WAY UP. I WOULD SHOOT THE MORE COMPETITIVE CLASS (IF THATS WHAT YOU CALL MY SHOOTING) IF THE CHANGE WERE TO OCCUR. BUT, A NEWCOMER WOULD FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE WITH ONE THAT IS NOT AS INTENSE. MAYBE EVEN A HC THAT YOU CAN SHOOT FOR ONE YEAR ONLY, SORT OF A TEST DRIVE CLASS, TO SEE IF YOU LIKE IT OR NOT. THE GREATEST REWARD ABOUT SHOOTING THE LARGER SHOOTS, AND ANY SHOOT, TO ME IS MAKING NEW FRIENDS WITH LIKE INTERESTS. I HAVE MET SOME OF GREATEST PEOPLE AT SHOOTS AND ON THIS FORUM, AND I THINK, I KNOW, THAT OUR SPORT HAS THE BEST FAMILY LIKE ATMOSPHERE OF ANYTHING I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH, I JUST WANT OTHERS TO EXPERIENCE THAT ALSO. YOUR SHOOTING THE HC, MAYBE WE CAN SHOOT AT NELSONVILLE TOGETHER. LET ME KNOW, BUTCHB.

Butchb and 3DXRING, I like most of your ideas, I think if we get enough ideas about this subject BowPro can come up with a qusetionare for the people in the HC. I personally like the idea of a HC money class with longer average shots. I dont no what the average shot was at Erie but I liked that range very much. The shots at Bedford I thought were to close. When the shots are 25yds and in it makes the 11 ring very important. Or should I say you can miss a few 11s at 32 or 35yds but you can not mis one at 23 yds. Maybe with longer average shots the 11 ring would be a bonus and not something you have to hit at least 60% of the time if you want to finish on the first page.

HEY, SOUNDS GOOD, I WOULD LIKE A QUESTIONARE, THAT WAY EVERYONE WHO IS CONCERNED ENOUGH COULD HAVE SAY ALSO. YOU MAY SEE ME AROUND THE CHECK IN TENTS, SIX FOOT, BALL CAP, FAT BOY WITH GOATEE. SAY HEY IF YA SEE THAT GUY, IT COULD REALLY BE ABOUT 50 PEOPLE OTHER THAN ME, BUT HEY, YOU MIGHT MAKE A NEW BUDDY. BUTCHB

I know for our local club the HC has brought more new shooters back into our club shoots than anything else in the last five years. I wish that I could practice enough to shoot in the 400+ scores but my age may prevent that before long. A money HC for those pros might be OK but the average backyard hunter still needs to feel welcome in the HC at their level too.