RE: HUNTER CLASS IDEAS
 

If the rules in the hunter class reflected real hunting, I believe the top competitors would move up to a more 3d tournament style of shooting. When I hunt I use my binoculars at longer ranges, usually 80 yards plus. Once my game has moved in from there I prepare for the shoot. 11's are not a concern, taking the animal clean is what it is all about.
My proposal for the hunter class would be to make the following changes.
1. No use of binoculars
2. No scoring the 11 ring

I have taken my friends on 3d shoots and they are always amazed at how decked out I am, they seldom bring binoculars and are able to stay in the kill zone.

RE: HUNTER CLASS IDEAS
 

If most of the people would read this issue over the past two years they would see that there is nothing new being posted just some new wording.
The reference to hunting is not realistic nor shoud we have to conform to a shooting style that is different than the way we shoot when we are competing. COMPETION is the key word. If we are interested in making changes to hunting than we should send some extra money to the Bowhunter Defense Fund. If we are interested in making changes to the Hunter competition class than we should base it on what is a benefit to the class and not how to change the class so that persons with lesser skills have a chance to compete or win. If it is true the fellow that won the World told me that he had only been shooting over a year and that really blows all the would be rule theories out the window. At the worlds he had to borrow a bow because his broke and he had to finish with a different bow after the first 20 targets. A 400 score is not a bad thing regardless of what the class is and a person that works his way up to that level deserves to win. In 48 years that I have been shooting there has always been people that would try to beat some one shooting good scores with the rule book. A beginner is a beginner and should receieve no special attention until he has earned his place. At the club level Hunter class is still the biggest and how many clubs follow the IBO rules at a local level. We have a practice class at our local shoots which has no awards and cost less to shoot.
The issue here should be what to do to encourage more shooters to join the IBO and help bowhunting and to come out and see what the established classes offer for all skill levels.
A real beginers class should be no awards, no restrictions on what stake to shoot and cheaper entry level. If the 400 scores are to high look at the number of shooters who see these scores in that class and still come to compete in that class. The few people that we have here on the Forum wanting to make changes to the Hunter class are in no way the majority.
Side note: I am 70 years old and Shoot MCBH which does not give me any breaks after all these years so why give people just starting so much attention. THE REAL ARCHERS WILL BE HERE YEAR AFTER YEAR AND SHOOTING IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.
The eleven ring is in the middle of the ten ring. Does'nt every one shoot at the middle of the ten ring.

RE: HUNTER CLASS IDEAS
 

fasstfletch If you don't want any change in classes and don't want any special considerations, then why are you shooting mcbh? Move up to mbo and there you would be equal to all those youngsters and be there for the competiton if age is not a factor.

RE: HUNTER CLASS IDEAS
 

Wow
I'm not sure that I understand your thread but I don't think it would add much to my life if I did understand.
I would never move down to MBO, it wouldn't be fair to those guys.
As for special consideration I'll take anything that is given to the class but It is always the same old story, the people who are the real archers and are in it for the total expierence never have to have any special treatment to participate. If our game is not worth joining on our terms as established by people that have worked hard to build this organization than we will survive without them and most likely grow. This is one of the oldest sports and it has not got this far by trying to satisfy a few individuals that are only interested in promoting their own personal agenda. If there are all these people that are so dissatisfied with the hunter class have them get a petition signed by these individuals and submit it to the BOD.
If more than half of the class signs such a petition you will have something to talk about.
Everyone has the right to submit their comments and suggestions to this thread and most of the particippants are trying to help solve what is percieved to be a problem by a few.
Good luck and good shooting.
GOOD NITE.

RE: HUNTER CLASS IDEAS
 

by your own description fastfletch, you say, "the people who are the real archers are in it for the total experience never have to have any special treatment to participate." i agree with your statement, but, by definition who exactly are those real archers?

a real archer is:

A. the guy who shows up at every club shoot, never complains, and always helps out the club on work day.

B. the guy who only shows up on sunday to the club shoot, occasionally shoots a major ibo event, but never helps out.

C. the competative guy who only care about winning, and competeing. he can hit the spot he is looking at every time.

D. the fellow who always shows up to shoot, never seems to get any better, but hunts like a mad man when the season opens.

E. the group on the range who is always the loudest, alway laughing, always cutting up, always pranking, and could care less about the end result of the shoot......

F the fellow who showed up early, got finished early, and has hung around the club house all day to find out if he has won a trophy....

G the fellow who shot well today, and is hanging around to collect his money.

H the walking billboard...hats, shirts, window stickers, towels, patches, mud flaps and the whole 9 yards, promoting their bow to the world.....


this list could go on forever.....now you have placed an idea that someone needs to be a real archer. now we just need to define that thought and find out who we are dealing with. that will help solve the problem with identifying the people who need to be in what class.....

RE: HUNTER CLASS IDEAS
 

:D:D:D fasstfletch I don"t understand what you mean by a REAL ARCHER??? Is it someone with a scope and balance poles hanging on the front and back ends shooting $200 arrows, (don't you shoot that stuff,were you at the World this year?) or is it Howard Hill, Fred Bear, Pete Shepley, Byron Ferguson, or the guy who shoots that Hunter Class bow who stalks deer in the wilderness and likes to shoot IBO for practice and comradery????

RE: HUNTER CLASS IDEAS
 

All of your descriptions may fit many individuals that are shooting now.
The point that you are missing is that it is not up to you to decide where another person shoots as long as there is a class system and the individuals meet the requirement and rules. If the class system sets the requirements and an individual qualifies who is to say where they must shoot or how they must look.
Where are all the people that are unhappy with the Hunter Class? Why aren't they making their opinions heard and why do they keep signing up at the tourneys. It would seem that if the class is registering 400 or more shooters at the IBO events they must have a different view of what is necessary to make them happy. It is easy to say that there is a problem if it does not meet your expectations but it seems that there is only a problem to a few people and they are the vocal minority. Why can't starting a new class for the people that you talk about create a begginings instead of upsetting a class that is more successful and growing. What class do you shoot and what is your average score?

RE: HUNTER CLASS IDEAS
 

pslee,
A real archer is all the things that you talk about and more.
A real archer is one that plays the game and hunts for the pleasure of what he may be able to accomplish himself. You may be happy to hunt or compete or shoot in your back yard if that is what you want. A real archer doesn't come through the door with his hand out and expect the people that built an organization to make room for them if they pay a few dollars dues. A real archer tries to improve his skill and make sure that he give his best effort in the woods deerhunting or on the field competing. A real archer tries to fit in to an organization where he fits not where he thinks his dollars entitle him to be.
I have lived during the area of all the people that you speak of and knew Fred Bear personnaly. I was at the world this year and the last 8 years prior to that.
I have all the things that you mentions hanging off my bow and I do that to ensure that I do everything that I can to ensure a clean quick harvest by me personnaly. I have shot a bow before all those things were available and I consider these things improvements that help an archer make a quick clean harvest. To me there are many things that a person can do to improve their own skill. If these things hanging off a bow make no difference with shooting then compare the scores of the aided archers and the unaided.
Every one has their own opinions of what is necessary and what a real archer is but I prefer to live in the present not in the past equipment wise. I have harvested many deer with a bow and a gun and I think that has nothing to do with competing on a 3D course.
I did a clinic with Fred Bear once and he was asked by the onlookers if he ever missed. His reply was" Not on Camera." A hunter in the woods never misses if that is what he decides to say because the animal is the only one who may be able to dispute this. On a 3D course everyone interested knows what really happens when the scores are posted.
The majority of the organization is what should rule and the organization is made up of everyone who joins.

RE: HUNTER CLASS IDEAS
 

fastfletch, i understand the "rules" as they are written. the problem is not with the shooters. it is in the wording of the "rules" it is an equipment class, designed for the new archer to come into the ibo/club shooting world with his hunting equipment. the thought of buying a 300.00 scope, 100.00 rest, 120.00 stabilizer, 100.00 release, 600.00 bow, 100.00-1200.00 binoculars should scare the daylights out of anyone new to the sport. this allows them to shoot their stuff, without the feeling they have to buy all the gadgets to compete. the birth of the hunting class is just that. my hunting bow looks just like anything you will see in that class, but that does not mean i belong there. that is the point you are missing. you wont hear anyone in the hunter class complaining because they do not want to leave the class, for whatever reason. the ones that actually shoot there that belong there are taking it in stride. they are there to shoot, and probably dont care about winning. the 1/3 of the class that shoots over 400 at a national event, and then complains because he didnt shoot enough 11 rings to win, is not what i would consider a candidate for the hunter class.

it is evident you and i will not agree on a solution, you feel anyone with the right equipment belongs, i tend to disagree with that. the shooter who is still challenged by the ranges belongs. the shooter who blows the shoot because he missed 2 11 rings on targets under 33 yards belongs? he is obviously a better shooter, and has above average ability.

you still look at it from the national level, i tend to look at it on the local level, with a few who travel to the major shoots. this has a negative effect at our level, as i have said before. we get participation, but not longevity. the same faces dont appear for long.

when a new shooter sees the rig i shoot, movable sight, long stabilizer, back tension release they are automatically comparing their ability to mine, and 99% of the time will bow out of shooting before they ever give it a try. finally getting them out there, convincing them they dont have to shoot against me in the open class, getting them to understand there is a class just for them, and getting them out finally to shoot, and one of the guys in their class turns in a score of 28 up, and beats the tar out of me, they automatically revert back to i cant win, so i wont play. again that is on the local level. if you can get them out there, we cant keep them. any suggestions on a fix for that?

RE: HUNTER CLASS IDEAS
 

I don't know about anyone else but I am getting tired of this "if I can't win I just won't play" mentality. When I first started in the hunter class I was thrilled to bring home some arrows. Now I have improved and can shoot up there with the other top shooters sometimes, and guess what no one handed me anything. I just put it in my head to get better and I did. Everyone should be cautious about what they whine for because you just might not like what you get.