RE: HUNTER CLASS IDEAS
 

;););) Hey Keith, your right , get rid of the money in HC, I don't shoot that class for money anyhow, but because I just like to shoot the equipment and yardage and have fun doing it!!! You could give away some sponsor prizes though. If people want to shoot for money, shoot the other money classes, and spend the bucks for scopes and things. I don't think the class is so big because of money, but because a very large number of people liked the class. It is unfortunate that some RINGERS have dropped into the class and kept the HUNTER from getting a win.

RE: HUNTER CLASS IDEAS
 

There is a chance that we are looking at this from the wrong angle. If any class becomes top heavy like the hunter class does that mean that we should impose the will of a few on the majority. If this class is growing to fast because it is attracting new members I would say that there may be a problem however I think that that is not the case at all. A new shooter coming in to the sport comes in not knowing the rules and regulations and therefore the direction that he takes is influenced by the people that are accepting the new member into the organization. The hunter class is growing in some areas but the growth is base not on how soon the new person can win but more on the skill level that they possess. Dictating where a person must shoot can only hurt the organization in the long run. If we loose seasoned members because we feel that they are supposed to be in a class of our choosing then who will be the looser. A person who has been a member of the IBO for any length of time deserves more than a would be archer. If we make changes that benefit the shooter who has not yet attained the skill level necessary to win which class will be next.
The money part of it at a club level is not even a factor in our area as we have an entirely different incentive program base on yearly participation which works just fine.
At the Nelsonville shoot one winner that I know of got back $89.00 for entry of $45.00 and ther was over 50 shooters in the class. Money is not the reason most of the shooters are shooting in my opinion or they would be shooting the Pro class. Many of the shooters in the hunter class are trying to come in on the first page much less first place. The shooters in this class are following the rules that were set up by the Organization and there is no one that is there because they don't want to be. If we send everyone back to their first choice class and they become loosers again we may loose them and that would be wrong. Archers who want to win should be willing to beat the best that there is in any class if not they are not winners but archers who happen to shoot the highest score that day. If this is strictly a class of would be champions then what about all the lower shooters in the other classes like MBR AND MBO, should we be moving the winners in those classes.
This subject can go on and on but this is how we must discuss it for now, On the forum.
Everyone has good intentions when they are contributing to these threads and I hope that everyone takes these as such. There is no authority on the subject at present but numbers do speak louder than words.
Lets be sure that we don't throw out the baby with the bathe water.

RE: HUNTER CLASS IDEAS
 

I am not sure without looking it up, but I would be interested to see how many of the HC shooters USED to shoot classes with longer yardages ? These are mainly the people that are killing things, not the fairly new people that have NEVER shot higher classes. Where do you think all the MBR shooters went ? They sure didn't all move up in class !!! Plus add to that the guys that gave up their scopes and dropped down !! We aren't talking about an average guy that has the best day of his life and places well, just the guys who are CONSISTENTLY in the top .

RE: HUNTER CLASS IDEAS
 

Kieth, please believe me when I say that I have attempted to look at this issue from all angles. I know the impact this class has had both in attendance and club resources. I've talked with shooters on the national and local levels alike. I've also spent time with hunters who have no idea what the major shoot circuit is all about. Intimidation does keep many people from playing our game. I would personally like to see those with the obvious ability shift to the MBR / MBO / or MBF classes by their choosing. When the subject of forced advancement comes up, however, I can not justify advancing to longer ranges or different equiptment. The plan I propose allows the shooters wishing to compete for fame and fortune from 35 yards with hunting equiptment to do so without standing on the new shooters introduced to the sport.

I find I must disagree Fastfletch, with one statement you make. The new "would be" archers are exactly the individuals we need to encourage. The success and proliferation of our sport mandates that we jointly do everything we can to encourage new people to participate. This proposal is not designed to make it possible for someone to win, just to make them feel they have a chance.

RE: HUNTER CLASS IDEAS
 

Chris, I believe that you are on the right track with your ideas about the hunter class, and as we know their isn't any sure fix to the questions that have been raised. Keep up the great work that you have started, stay with it. Rudy

RE: HUNTER CLASS IDEAS
 

All the comments and questions are bringing out some new thoughts from people that I believe would like to solve a problem.
I can't say that I can point to anything and say that it is causing a decline in membership, and the class system seems to be surviving.
Let me ask a question because I am not aware of what the answer could be other than the way it is now. Prior to establishing the Hunter class, what class had a maximum yardage less than 45 or 50 other than the junior classes? Is it possible that the 35 yard Max was what many people wanted prior to the new class being formed but had no choice? Where was it stated that this would be for begining archers in 3D and where is this printed so that a person coming to the sport can know exactly to expect.
IMHO the name of the Organization being what it is should be proud that the number one class (numbers wise) is the HUNTER CLASS of the INTERNATIONAL BOWHUNTING ORGANIZATION. The name denotes that they are more than a few archers who would like to see if they like the sport of competition but individuals who are participating in an organization and a class because of pride in both.
If we truely want to promote archery to the first time archers coming to our organization than what would be the problem of creating a class for these archers. This would make it possible to correct the problems whether perceived or real. It is true that we need to promote archery to the new members but not at the expense of the established classes. If the majority of the hunter class feels that their class is not fair then why does it keep growing at all levels. There will always be the few people that want to win but at someone elses expense. This organization should always be promoting the fact that as hunters or competitors we should always be the best that we can be.

RE: HUNTER CLASS IDEAS
 

I know that here in Pa. there are hundreds of thousands of bowhunters and millions nationwide. I have also read that less than 1% of all archers compete in 3-d. Most of this 99% will not spend alot of money and travel very far to get beat by 50 points or more. There are too many locals who are legends in their own minds who won't go get beat that way. I am used to winning around here and if I come back from a national shoot of any type and say I finished 3rd or 12th or 35th or whatever, the first thing I hear is " what happened ? ". What happened was I was shooting against higher competition ! Give this 99% a class to try out without the fear of embarrassment and afew just may try it !! We need to attract new shooters as I don't think there are as many youth shooters coming into 3-d as there are older people giving it up ?

RE: HUNTER CLASS IDEAS
 

Pa Proud,

I live 5 miles from Pa and shoot in a league with a club from Pa. The figures that you mention are unknown by any responsible reporting organization but you may have an inside tract that we should know about. What gurantee do you have that if we make everyone who shoots over 350 move to another class that we will get 5 more shooters who will be new to the sport. If you were to say that there are 90% of the bowhunters in your state who don't even know about the IBO I would have a tendency to agree with you.
If the bowhunters in Pa and NY would have 10% of their total join the IBO for conservation reasons this would be a tremendous increase. The young lady who won the FBO class in Bedford, IN. was from the Williamsport area and she told me that there is no place aroud here area to shoot. Where are all these people that you are talking about and why don't they join the IBO so their voice can be heard. We should be promoting the IBO in Pa. for it total package that it offers bowhunters then we can truely be doing some good for everyone.
Changing Hunters class for an unknown number of maybe shooters does not make much sense to me and could cost us more members than we receieve.
If we make the top 10%of the hunters class move to another class what makes you think tht the bottom half of the other class won't move to the hunter class so that they will have a chance. Your input is welcome but the overall wellfare of the majority still has to be the key concern and their will always be a unhappy few in every class.

RE: HUNTER CLASS IDEAS
 

;););) Hey PA Proud !!! how about telling that 99% about the Bowhunter Defense Courses??? Shoot once ,twice ,all weekend and not worry about scores but yet shoot with the Pros and Ringers, mingle with the crowd, have fun and maybe get a prize! They can still say they went to the Worlds!! Even if you create a so-called class for the folks you talk about, guess what, someone is still going to out shoot everybody else!!! It is the nature of the beast as some would say.
There is always a number one shooter and number whatever is last in any class.

RE: HUNTER CLASS IDEAS
 

okay, with money now being thrown around as an idea, why not create a pro pins class, and even a semi pro pins class, with any equipment, fixed pins naturally, move the mbr max to 40 yards. this would allow shooters to move up naturally, and those who wish to shoot for money could move to the mbr, or even one of the pro classes, and allow the new shooter the opportunity to experience our sport in the hunter class......this will allow for natural progression, and possibly the ibo wouldnt have to create a move up/move out situation in that class....

how about that for a solution? bluejacket? fastfletch? better solution? maybe?

for some reason i have given this much thought, but it really doesnt involve me other than the local level. i just see things go bad around here for the local shooters, and if we cant get them to stay locally, we sure wont ever get them to the ibo national level shoots......