Robert, as some one that has in the past shoot against you it seems that you still have that NEGETIVE outlook. The IBO had to put the RU in it' s own group. Let' s change the setting that you are shooting HR and some one comes along and you have to shoot against that person. Let' s also say that he is shooting a FITA style bow and has X10 arrows. I would say that I think, no I know that you would be PISSED! That is why IBO had to get the RU in it' s own class. I also think that next year that those that will spend money to set up a metal riser bow to shoot in the HR, fine all the more for the fun, bring them on!

Let' s also look at the fact that if you claim that ther are not enough shooters in your class, well go shoot NAA or NFAA and even ASA,. There are more than 26 shooters in those organizations.

One last item. The reason that I don' t shoot any more in major events are people like you. They have nothing postive to say!!!

Robert,

Your correct in that there were fewer shooters participating at the IBO World' s in the RU class this year, but I don' t believe you' re seeing the big picture.

The division of the RU class was done to boost intrest in the traditional ranks. Over time I really feel this will be a benefit to IBO and increase the numbers of " Traditional" shooters at these shoots. I view all traditional styles of shooting as being in the same faternaty. If it takes a more defined breakdown in the classes to bring the shooter' s out, then IBO needs to follow that path.

The IBO, like any organization, needs to grow and change with the times. As a matter of fact I feel more is needed to provide the form for ALL to compete.

The RU class will still be there next year. But if it' s the pay out that you' re worried about there are better ways of making money.

-Mike

Robert,

The Cloverdale shoot is just south of Indy. A further drive for you, but you could buy airfare and such for less than you spent last weekend. Seminars, vendors, novelties--a good weekend.

Besides, if you win recurve class there--well--that' s something to be impressed about.

I write this as a complete IBO novice, having just joined recently. My son and I both shot at Snowshoe (YTRD and HR classes).

1. I was under the impression that the RU class was mainly for the " olympic" or " field" style bows ... equipment that really is not suitable for hunting at all (long limbs, ultralight arrows, short vanes, etc.) and that the HR class was added to provide a place for the folks, like me, who want to compete with their hunting rigs and not get whupped by the folks with the very accurate, but not very field-worthy, equipment. Am I wrong?

2. If premise #1 is even remotely correct, then why isn' t there more contrast between the classes? For example, I saw other HR shooters with arrows that would be totally unsuitable for broadhead use. Why aren' t there weight and fletching length minimums in the HR classs that reflect the emphasis on h [hr]

(ok....I am really a novice and posted before I finished writing...)

...that reflect the emphasis on hunting. Wouldn' t this help with the problem of loss of shooters in the RU class, as well as encourage more traditional hunters to consider shooting in the HR class?

I was pissed off before last year' s shoot after hearing all the squawking from crybabies wanting to divide the class. Hell, for the sake of a damned 12 inch stabilizer, you guys said to go ahead and split it. I' ve got a feeling you guys wouldn' t be happy until the class has been split over and over again until IBO offers an individual class for everyone so you can be a World Champion without having to beat anyone. Payout? That' s only part of it. Who the hell wants to be #1 in a field of only 2? That' s where we' re getting.

Cedarflinger, you nailed the real issue. Whatever the rules are, people will use them to their advantage. It' s a competition and not a hunt and people who are in it for the competition (since it' s a " World Championship" that' s everyone) will do whatever they think will make them more competitive. Brining more trads into the IBO? I think it' s too late for that. The traditional shooters have been on the decline for many years now and this last move just drove a stake through the heart of the last solid class of recurve shooters there was.

Most people who quit going to major events do it because it' s (a) not worth it or (b) know they don' t stand a chance, anyway. I' ve got plenty positive to say when positive things are happening. But what happened to the RU class was NOT positive. I' m sure they felt it was a good move and would make everyone happier and result in more participation, but I don' t think it' s going to work out that way at all.

Saying " I told you so" in a couple years isn' t going to make me feel any better, either. I' ve been shooting IBO since it' s inception. I' ve always felt that IBO was the very definition of 3D shooting. I guess I better wake up and get with the times just like the IBO has to do.

Robert,


Here' s the truth. Levy Bryant, HR, won the triple crown and world with a Bob Lee recurve, all wood and alum. arrows. This is the bow he hunts with. Jason Steele also won 2 of the 3 triple crown shoots , HR , win a Black Widow 55@28, alum arrows. The same arrow he killed a nice buck with last year ! Fransico Flecha took RU with the same bow and arrow combo that he hunts with ! It is not a oylimpic type bow, far from it ! 62#' s at his drawlength. He also shot this bow in France and did quite will against the high tech set-ups !


I think we- recurve and longbow shooters- give way to much credit to the equipment someone uses. Truth is these guy' s can shoot anything better than most people !


Bill Leslie

90+ in 2001, 65 in 2002 and with the addition of the new HR class, 27 in 2003.
Looks like almost 1/3 drop in 2002 before class change. Definate trend in interest.
Prior to the HR class, the most underrepresented group of traditional archers was those who shot a hunting style recurve with aluminum or carbon arrows. Go to almost any shoot where you see sticks and a large % will have that equipment. Sure they could compete against the tricked out target style bows but most,myself included, felt they were at a disadvantage. That is why last year I shot MTRD but I really don' t like the work it takes me with the wood arrows and would rather shoot all summer the equipment I hunt with.
I am sure the reason people shoot the target equipment is they feel it makes them a better shot and more competitve. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, but it left the recurve shooter choosing to use hunting style equipment with no place to be competitive. Now they have a class and I think it will grow as people become aware of it. I would like to see steps to insure that it remains a hunting style class - possibly restrictions concerning arrow wght to draw wght and a point wght limit.
I hope the RU shooters don' t feel the need to attempt pushing the rules and intent of the HR class to compete with equipment they would never take hunting simply to attempt to win a shoot. Personally, that would be a hollow victory to me and not one I would be proud of. If the RU is dying because hunting style equipment is no longer forced to inflate the class numbers, than that style must look to the real reasons, whatever they are, and see what must be done to create interest and growth.Just my opinion
Steve

WFL, I couldn' t agree more. There was much too much hubub about the equipment in the RU class because the better shooters can shoot just about anything. Francisco shot a bow very much like my hunting recurve. But my huting recurve isn' t a " hunting recurve" according to lots of trad shooters. It' s fast. It' s accurate. It' s powerful as hell at 55 pounds with carbon limbs. It' s set up with a plunger and a flipper just like everyone else in the RU class and just like most hunters used to do before shooting off the shelf became all the rage.

Steve, what baffled me was that the HR class DIDN' T have restrictions on point weight, arrow weight to draw weight and other things that would keep the class from getting " corrupted" by target shooters. You' re going to be facing a lot of them next year because they have no where else to go.

Unfortunately, I can' t shoot my hunting setup in the HR class because my hunting setup has a <gasp!> arrow rest! And it also has a <shame, shame!!!> 4 inch shock and sound absorbing stabilizer. The fact that it' s an ACTUAL hunting bow at a relatively stout 55#@27" draw weight doesn' t seem to matter. My setup got blown out of the water by the new rules.... to shoot RU competitively, I had to switch over to a target setup and to shoot HR, I' d have to discard a HUNTING stabilizer and figure out some way to turn my flat shelf into a radius shelf, get rid of the arrow rest and pad it out with leather in a way that meets the rules - or buy ANOTHER bow set up specifically for that style of shooting, which I personally think is a disadvantage for hunting.

I thought the RU class was viable as it stood before and that' s what really sandpapered me. No stringwalking, no face walking, no 3 foot stabilizers. So what if a small hunting stablizer or plunger button is used with an arrow rest. If they help you put the arrow where it belongs in the hunting woods what makes it such a bad/unfair thing? I guess I' m just nonplussed about all this nonsense. In the golden age of recurves and barebow shooting EVERYONE used an arrow rest. Shooting off the shelf only became stylish in the last ten years or so. I' d hardly call a recent fad " traditional" , anyway. Maybe I' ve just been in this sport too long and have turned into an anachronism.

But one thing you can bet on. The HR class will have the rules stretched just like every other class. People want to win and they' ll do what' s within the rules to do it and there' s nothing wrong with that.