wingbar

Now that the good Dr has gone public as to the truth of why he left the agency (because he wasn't willing to meet his boss's, the Board of Comm. adgenda) It may be a good time to approach those same bosses with a request for true AR in the state of Pa. on 1/23 at the public input section of the winter meetings.
Following are a list of suggestions I will prepare as my request:

1. all hunters will abide by the same AR
a. doing away with current "any buck" for Jr. and servicemen/women

2. the same WMU point restrictions (3 in most 4 in western)

3. a "buck" tag must be used on any male deer
a. a button buck needs to be tagged as a male deer

4. when a WMU's DD is above that WMU's goal all hunters must "earn a buck" by killing an anterless deer in that WMU before attempting to kill a antlered deer


I'll be at the doors well befor they open so as to get a crack at the sign up sheet.

mauser06

ok....i accidently shoot a BB thinking it was a doe....i burn my buck tag..no biggie...its rare i see horns anyway....but i have 5 doe tags and want to do hunt....what happens when i take another BB as a doe?? i get arrested or fined or something???? that will never work....EVER...its a great idea...i thought of it myself.....but unless you have to quit hunting another mistake can and may happen easily...its pretty tough to say thats a button buck alot of times...sure you get the times hes real close....or stopped perfectly and you have a scoped rifle......but thats not alot of the cases....i havent saw much effect done from AR....id say scrap it in a year or 2 if nothing much is seen....sure people claim its working...but thats because they HAVE to shot a 6pt or an 8pt..when before they would killed the spike they saw an hour ago....but then the little boy across the gulley whacked the spike the adult passed.....so alot of guys say its working...only because they HAVE to wait.....i do agree everyone should have to count.....as a junior i liked the idea of being able to take what i want...but my buck was still legal that year....but now as an adult....its just not going to work how it should if we still kill the small bucks adults pass....theres alot of seniors/juniors/people in the forces that can kill any buck they see...something needs done or its just a waste...

deaddeer

Before you make that proposal you might want to consider the impact that willl have on future fawn recruitment and BB production. If hunters have to tag BB as an antlered deer ,the vast majority of hunters will pass on all small deer and most fawns that will be harvested will be because hunters made a mistake.

In 2003 we harvested 323K anterless deeer; 197K adult doe and 126K fawns. If hunters reduced the fawn harvest to 26K, then the adult doe harvest would have had to increase by 100K in order to produce the harvest that just kept the herd stable. since adult doe avergae 1.76 embryos /doe ,the harvest of 100K additional adult doe would reduce recruitment by 176K fawns which would mean 88K fewer BB.


You should also address the issue of what the penalty would be for the hunter that harvested an antler buck and then harvested a BB by mistake and didn't have a valid buck tag for the BB.

BTBowhunter

1 The "kiddie kill" is statistically insignificant so its just a matter of whats good for the sport and with the junior hunter numbers dropping like crazy, it just aint likely to ever happen.

2 Sounds good to me AR is still very popular Hr is the only thing in question

3 Glad to see your position on BB's change but its not feasible, except maybe for archery hunting

4 Sounds good, but will be a tough sale to the 1 or 2 day
hunter. Someone you've said is important to our numbers

wingbar

didn't the good Dr tell us we were suppose to be shooting mature doe/passing on fawns to start with?
There really is no way to enforce a fine or penalty for killing a BB after you tag a Ar legal buck if you walk away from it, so why put it on the books? I hunt in Tx every Nov. you must put a buck tag on a male deer there, I am not aware of any penalty other than if you're caught with a second buck kill then it is treated like anyother out of season deer kill...teaches you real quick not to shoot fawns
these are MY suggestions if you have yours you are welcome to them, go to the meeting and hit the sign up sheet if you choose not to go so be it, live with it!

deaddeer

Yes he did and the result is that hunters are disgusted ith the low number of deer they saw this year.

The exact same thing could be said for AR. yet they put it on the books and no one knows if the fine will be $25 or $500 until the WCO makes his decision on the status of the hunters violation..
If you can't handle constructive critcism ,than why bother to post your ideas?

wingbar

Dead: I have no problem with constructive crictism at all, I simply put up what I am going to suggest on 1/23 an suggest that others do the same if they hold a few.
I am going to assume with all your ideas on deer management you too will be there 1/23 thus you will have every opportunity to be heard with your suggestions.
I've agreed all along about the doe harvests but even you must admit they will not come to an end in our lifetimes. We may only hope to curtail them a bit.
IMHO I feel youth deer days should be stopped. If a kid wants to hunt they know it, if a kid has a full Daytimer then the choice is theirs or their parents. It is a sad state of affairs when parents allow their 14 yr old kid to become so involed with such a variety of past times that that same kid is so stressed out from it they can't enjoy a normal life. Truth be told I've never met a kid that really took to hunting that had to be told to decide for themselves what they wanted to do more. If they love the sport they'll find time for it, just like an adult finds time for it between work ,family,etc.

chickory

"the vast majority of hunters will pass on all small deer ".

That is a big issue.

In arkansas, where they also practice AR statewide, they require hunters to use a tag for a bb. but it has done nothing to lower the harvest of BB.

Arkansas takes a LARGE number of BB every season even though they tag them. But what it did do in arkansas was to lower thier antlerless harvests to the point that wildlife managers were not meeting thier goals of harvesting enough does.

Same would happen here in pa, people would be too timid in shooting does and the PGC would not hit thier goal of antlerless harvest.

Since we don't know what the JR hunters harvest is, we can't say its insignifigant. I've never seen it reported. But yes, all hunters in Pa ought to hunt under the same rules. If it were me, AR would be purely voluntary as it serves no scientific purpose other than someone having a rack to brag over at work. A petty goal.


For me, the only thing I need the PGC to do is provide decent deer hunting for a large % of the hunters of PA, not everybody. How they do it I don't care, but the last guy wasn't doin' it.

deaddeer

Also, we should not lose sight of the fact that In Ark. and MI hunters can harvest two buck/yr. and in Miss. hunters can harvest 3 buck /yr. The fact is PA hunters are some of the best ,most efficient hunters in the nation and if we allowed our hunters to harvest 2 antlered buck /yr. we would decimate the buck population even with AR.

Hacimsaalk

1. i dont agree, wuts wrong with jrs shooting small bucks, theydont take that many, and service men should be allowed to, wut if that is the only deer they see while they are home.

2. where do u live. have u ever tried to hunt out here before, do u know how many 4pts to a side deer there aren't. ive only see one adult-shootable deer in the 2 yrs ive been hunting

3.except for late muzzleloader, they are goin out and freezin their asses off only to have their guns not go off
a.the arent bucks, they dont have antlers, and how are you going to do that with having to have som many points to a side, but then making button bucks have buck tags

4. i can see, but it is not neccessary