what do you want in pa
 

I am fairly new to this site and all but i would like to know
what it would take to make you happy? what does everyone
want any opion please

RE: what do you want in pa
 

3 day doe season reduced doe tag numbers. the WMU's made smaller. And sunday hunting

RE: what do you want in pa
 

A deer every year in the freezer. So my wife dont think Im to old to hunt or I'm stupid

RE: what do you want in pa
 

moose season......kinda be just like deer season......say your hunting them....just never see one!!!...according to some people atleast.....in all seriousness id say the doe killing went far enough.....ARs arent doing much that i can tell.......maybe give em a year or 2 more n scrap them if we dont see much....which i dont think anyone truely has yet....last year we killed more bigger bucks then this year......just dont see the results yet.......and HR is going to far.....i like the special oct muzzleloader hunt.....wish we could take a buck with a flinter though during that season....id say lower the number of tags given out and have rifle season for does on the 2 saturdays during rifle season and the old 3 days after....and sunday hunting!!!!!!!!!!!! dont take alot to make us guys happy.....just a few little things that they should never tinkerd with......

RE: what do you want in pa
 

Make the AR even more strict to save all 1.5yr old buck. Reduce the number of doe tags given out and go back to the three day doe gun season.

RE: what do you want in pa
 

Smaller WMU's

Better deer kill reporting system with meaningful enforcement to those who dont comply or those who file false kill reports.

Continue HR where its needed but back off where its not.

Manage game lands for the game animals, not for timber sales.

Keep AR and look at how to enhance it to protect more 1.5 bucks

Make the price of shooting a BB in early archery be the hunters buck tag

some type of earn a buck program if the hunter wishes to hunt bucks before regular seson

keep the more liberal AR for junior hunters and our servicemen

Combine the PGC and PFC? OK, just keep DCNR at arms length.

RE: what do you want in pa
 

make everyone follow the same AR
drop youth hunting days altogether
no buck hunting for archers
60% cut in doe tags

RE: what do you want in pa
 

1. Revise the OWDD so that they reflect the true carrying capacity of all the habitat the deer utilize, not just forested habitat. This would increase the OWDD to 20-25 DPSM in mixed farmland and would lots andthereby eliminate the need for further HR in many areas.
2. Repeal AR until a WMU is within 10% of the OWDD goals. This would allow AR to be evaluated fairly , rather than have it's effects being over shadowed by HR.
3. Instead of denigrating and deceiving hunters like Alt has done , I would give them more credit for the effort they put forth . By trying to convince hunters that the large anterless harvest haven't reduced the herd Alt has undermined the credibility of the PGC and created a new generation of hunters that want to protect the doe.
4. A PR campaign should be started to encourage land owners to open more of their land to hunters. The PGC has failed to emphasize the role property owners must play in solving overpopulation problems in many areas.
5. Repeal AR's and institute an earn a buck plan in SRA counties.

RE: what do you want in pa
 

i am not sure how to word it but i think that you should have to bring your buck to a check in station and when you do so you should be allowed to apply for a second buck tag.

i think they should only allow 1 doe tag per hunter

make the early muzzleloader season after or before achery season. you get guys out there shooting at deer and spooking them right before the rut begins.

sunday hunting

illeagle to hunt deer with a rifle under .24 caliber

award something to those who send in their harvest report cards. "something small ie: late season doe tag, $3 that where spent buying the lisences just something little to encourage people to send in those cards " because i know lots of guys who never sent one in their life!! now how are we supposed to know how many deer are being killed if you don't send in your cards?

RE: what do you want in pa
 

are you crack heads for real?...

RE: what do you want in pa
 

Eliminate youth days...

The number of hunters is declining dramatically throughout the country. Why should we care about introducing kids to the great sport of hunting and giving them an opportunity to experience it outside the confines of the normal season.

We should just continue to push them away, not give them any encouragement or assistance.

Just think how many extra doe would be around if we didn't allow them to hunt. That would probably solve the herd reduction problem all by itself.

This is not to mention all the other youth seasons, just the deer one as I assume you intended?

No Bucks in Archery Season..

So...with a 60% reduction in doe tags..and not allowing Archers to take a buck, the only thing I can assume is that you don't want the number of Archery enthusiasts in the woods. Those that are are going to be there can shoot off all the does and contribute to the herd reduction..sounds like great management to me.

Make everyone follow the same AR restrictions?

I have read over and over in here about people wanting smaller areas managed so that the PGC has better control over the deer and habitat within each of those areas. Guess that only applies to does in those areas and not bucks?


I do have a question though based on what I have been reading. Lets assume that you stop shooting all does for a couple years in the areas that are "deerless". Maintain the current levels in areas that have the carrying capacity. Maintain the AR as they are and let the small little bucks grow up. Would that help anything?

RE: what do you want in pa
 

No buck hunting for archers? Yeah, I bet everyone would love that.

I say we change over to shot gun only and have an earn a buck program for the two weeks of gun season:D

RE: what do you want in pa
 

Earn a buck program sounds more like a job then recreation.I enjoy hunting buck because that just happens to be my cup of tea.It's my recreation and when they turn it into a job scenero they can count me out.That's what I like about huntin g,get's me away from that "must do" work environment.

RE: what do you want in pa
 

I wanna see deer when I hunt there! Simple.

Here's what I think---

1)Close down Deer hunting for one year at least in WMU's where the deer have all been but eradicated to jumpstart re-growth of the herd.

2)Implement a "one deer per year, any method" law for the next 2 years following that. This will also bring back the numbers that Alt decimated to acceptable levels.

3)Once the population returns to acceptable levels and hunters can enjoy at least SEEING deer in all areas again, THEN implement additional doe tags as necessary after getting input FROM THE HUNTERS THEMSELVES thru survey reports from each WMU.

After the first year hunters being able to only harvest one deer per year any method will quickly bring the numbers back and the state will once again have a "worthwhile" population. Some areas admittedly do not need such drastic action to be taken, and this is also an area where the PGC needs to individualize things a bit instead of throwing everything into one big box. My take on all of this is that most hunters want to see deer when they hunt, period, and the PGC didn't handle that quite the way we were led to believe it would be after sending dreams of big bucks running everywhere into our skulls . As far as AR's go, the big ol smart bucks will be there regardless, just have to find them, just like everywhere else. In the meantime we all would like to see deer while hunting, to me that WAS one of the greatest things about hunting PA. Unfortunately that is gone now in several areas of the state, and IMHO that is what needs alot of focus to restore.

I don't see any need to harvest more than one animal in a given state either unless they are largely overpopulated. Just because we hunt with bow, then muzzleloader, then rifle shouldn't mean we can automatically take 3 deer each year-- I personally feel that is a bit greedy UNLESS there is a population problem as stated above. Might as well add crossbow, spear, rock, and truck too with that type of thinking, lol. If they allow one deer per year either sex, alot of guys will try to wait for bucks but once it gets down to the end they will take a doe instead and thus save a buck. This acts as a natural AR/ balancing element and more bucks live to the next year. This means bigger bucks, without the need for AR's---again, you must choose for yourself what you want, horns or meat. At least it's OUR choice that way.

All of this will never happen tho, I think this retarded decimation was all staged and planned for alterior motives. Unfortunately I don't think the PGC understood what kind of impact it would have by doing so and it got carried away to boot after the first year. Alt was the poster child and scapegoat in the end, but it wasn't all his doing either, he was just a sock puppet for the most part.

I'd love to be able to go back to our camp in North Central PA and see decent numbers of deer again, but I think we'll be going to different states for awhile till the numbers come up again, IF they ever do. In the meantime we will enjoy it for a summer family getaway and "monitoring" place. Good luck! Pinwheel 12

RE: what do you want in pa
 

AMEN Pinwheel... I live in NY near the PA border. I have limited time to hunt and ample land to hunt in NY. Several years ago, I elected to begin hunting in PA for the following reasons, in order of preference:

1.) Another "Opening Day" opportunity.
2.) Opportunity to hunt with a Rifle within 10 miles of my home.
3.) Opportunity to see several deer in one sitting (Remember, this was several years ago)
4.) Chance to take another deer.

Back then, if I was lucky to get an antlerless permit, I always passed on a small doe because I knew a bigger 1 would show. I still do pass on small antlerless deer, but I know several hunters who will kill the first deer they see because of limited sightings. From one of my previous threads on this message board, what was wrong with the system they had several years ago? A 3-day doe season only and 1 deer per hunter. I don't know of any hunters that wouldn't be happy with 1 deer in the freezer. I would like to shoot a trophy buck, but in the areas I hunt, which is public land, I am thrilled to death to see several deer and get any buck. I've got ridiculed before for stating this, but as they say... You can't eat the horns and I also believe, if you kill a big doe out of a small population, you are destroying the herd. One statement summarizes my wishes... Go back to the old way!

RE: what do you want in pa
 

i wouldnt mind ppl only getting 1 tag buck or doe
But one thing that bothers me is when i send out for a bonus tag
dont get one but found out an out of stater got one it go to show
all the game commsion wants is money. i sent in on the first day you could to
Dont get me wrong i have nothing agaist out of state hunters .
And personly i only kill 1 maybe 2 because i dont need that much deer
meat 1 will get me threw the winter i only kill 2 when i need more canned meat.
the people that want more than 1 deer will get it one way or another
either poaching or have freinds and family get a tag so i dont thing 1
tag a person would help
To bring up the herd 1 buck 1 doe resident only till the herds are back up
and again nothing against out of state ppl my wife has out of state family that hunts with us but resident only would save alot of deer

Happy hunting

RE: what do you want in pa
 

Based on the suggestions thus far, the state should:

1. Eliminate youth days and stop the kids from getting special opportunities to learn about hunting.

2. Cut the doe licenses by 60 percent.

3. Eliminate Archery Hunting for Bucks. Allow them to shoot only does.

4. Eliminate non-resident hunting for several years until the deer herd allows every resident to shoot one buck and one doe, then allow them back in.

**Interesting side note that according to a study done, non resident hunters bring approximately $488,500,00 dollars into the revenue stream of the state. I'm sure a state as wealthy as PA wouldn't miss that at all.

Monetary Figures From:

http://www.iafwa.org/Attachments/Hun...act%202001.pdf

RE: what do you want in pa
 

#1. Smaller management units.
#2. Better studies on carrying capacity in each WMU.
#3 . Reduce herd reductions statewide with the exception of severly over-populated areas.
#4. Set-up a program to make it more rewarding for guys to hunt the over-populated areas.
#5. 4pt antler restrictions statewide.
#6. Shorten the doe season to 1 week (the last week of rifle season).
#7. Create a better system for harvest reports.
#8. HIRE MORE GAME WARDENS!
#9. Open more public land to hunting.
#10. Plant more food plots on SGL's.
#11. Any archer who shoots a button buck must use a buck tag!
#12. Listen to hunters imput.
#13. Raise doe tag price to $10 each.
#14. Sunday hunting for over-populated WMU's!
#15. Remove allowing muzzleloaders to shoot a doe and tag it with a buck tag (flintlock).
#16. Have archers and flintlock tags come with a doe tag (raise tag prices an extra $3) and set-up a earn-a-buck program for them.

I am not sure what else, but these are just some random ideas!

RE: what do you want in pa
 

I'd like to see no buck hunting till March each year. By then they will have dropped the majority of racks and then we would see how many hunters are truly interested in "resource first" and "just doing what is best for the herd". :D:D:D

wannabes, you gotta love 'em.

RE: what do you want in pa
 

unclebuck
how much money non residents bring in whoope when their is
only a couple deer here and there non residents will go elsewhere
then what good is the Study thats half of americas problem todays
to many people have to study something . i say bla to your little
non resisents bring so much money no deer no money anyway
find a study for that. and not when all residents kill 1 of each
but when the numbers are up

RE: what do you want in pa
 

Hire an experienced biologist to run the PGC with CONTROL and responsibility for programs and game management. Release the politicians and those that are not contributing to the programs in place and established regulations. Basically, clean up their act.

RE: what do you want in pa
 

Thank you for the wonderful response Bowhunt05...

My point is that everyone on this forum seems to be picking a specific group to target.

Non-Resident Hunters
Archery Hunters
Children Hunters

Some with to cut doe tags 60%

Others only want residents to shot does

Other areas of the state need to have increased harvest

I'm sure if I reread all of the posts that I could come up with some other categories, but those three stick out. There does seem to be a common thread amongst those three though, every group enjoys hunting.

I'm sure as Sniper indicated that with proper sound management at the State and Local levels that you may not have exactly what each of you want, but there are room for improvements in many aspects.

It does leave very little misunderstanding though based on the responses that no matter what the PGC does, everyone isn't going to be happy. There are going to be emotionally based, non-game management responses...and so be it. Hopefully though, some of the people that are making intelligent suggestions that are good for both hunters and the deer herd will speak and be heard by the PGC.

As far as the monetary dollars...my point was that with proper game management and deer numbers, the state is reaping a large amount of money from non-resident hunters. You are correct, without the deer numbers that number will shrink. My thought is that you can have both with proper management. I'm pretty sure that is what the many citizens who's business thrives off these hunters would agree they want the deer numbers up to continue to attract them.

As to your statement "thats half of americas problem todays to many people have to study something"......you are right. But I certainly hope that they do an indepth study of the deer herd to do the right things and included in that study are listening to people, such as yourself and the other members here who seem to have a vast range of suggestions and ideas concerning the situation and are so very passionate about it.

RE: what do you want in pa
 

May I point out this is just trying to appease as many little special interest groups....which is what Alt tried. His efforts to appease the Pa Farm bureau, the foresters, yucky rack hunters, youth hunters, guys in the military only home for one weekend, qdm fad followers, bird watchers, lease owners, DCNR.....etc etc etc is how we ended up with this watered down medicore deer plan of today.

Thats what happens when you try to please everyone....in the end you end up making no one happy.

You guys are just proposing more of the same...

Face up to the facts. At one time the state did cater to traditionla hunters who were hung up on the fetish of big racks. Most pa hunters were happy to harvest any available buck, those who were not waited until a bigger one came by. The reason we now have a problem is that hunters are no longer satisfied with thier traditional role of merely harvesting the surplus population and going home and eating it.

They now are caught up in fast food drive thru style "supersize" management. Where a buck isn't worth harvesting unless its a "biggie size" 8 point with at least a 16" spread or they don't want it. Gag!!

They want whitetails farmed for them. Raised in pa until big enough to shoot over artificial food plots grown just to get a deer fat enough for a taxidermist. Yuck! makes me sick to think pa is about one step away from just raising deer in pens until they are 10points that score a minmum P&Y before being released for hunters like pheasants.... [:'(]

You can't make everyone in pa happy. Pick who its gonna be. The quality QDM fad, or the quantity happy traditional hunters and go with one....because you cannot please both in pa.

I hate how pa has taken the shallow approach of trying to appease every group, its used to be that most in pa were traditional hunters. Sadly they are not anymore, many want the "bigger better deal" like they see on TV fad hunting shows. Many think QDM will create big Saskatewan booner bucks, yet to do so means cutting numbers so low that hunters will walk away from the sport rather than stick with hunting Pa patheticly small fad herd. It has created a big rift in the pa hunting community, and will probably never heal.

We are going to end up trying to please everyone, and in the end we will please no one....

RE: what do you want in pa
 

chickory,

So what is your problem with guys who pass on smaller bucks? Like I have said, I enjoy the challenge of hunting a mature buck instead of a little 1.5 year old spike that isn't the brightest deer in the woods, also, it helps to prolong my hunting season, and I like to see the deer around here grow to their potential.

I hear you and deaddeer and ulysses keep talking about "horn hunters", but alot of guys know that letting the young bucks grow is actually good for the herd. This enables the bucks to mature, which means that there is more competition for breeding does, which means that only the best bucks breed the does, passing on the best genes. I know you keep talking about the best genetic bucks being killed before their time, but that is speculation.

Sorry guys, I am gonna keep passing on small bucks no matter if we have AR's or not. Its not that I am too good for a small buck, its that I like seeing the deer actually get some age under their belt before they are killed. That is also the reason I set feeders out in the winter to help the deer out and I film/video deer all year round along with having game cameras to capture pictures of them. You guys that suggest not having a buck harvest for a year, fine with me, I will hunt with my scouting cameras and start patterning bucks for the next year that bucks are allowed to be harvested!

RE: what do you want in pa
 

You are correct, BM, they keep criticizing horn hunters but they are horn hunters too!
All of them have called does the consolation prize or the booby prize. They just arent willing to wait for a mature buck. They have been raised in the Pa Tradition of "any buck is better'n a doe. They arent happy just harvesting "a deer" They need to shoot a buck! Even if it is a spike, and just who the heck are we to get in the way of their own version of a horn hunt!!!!!

RE: what do you want in pa
 

The only use i have found for horns is my pitbul like to chew on them
althou it does make a mess
anyway the game comm cannot please everyone but to me you
cannot kill off the doe herd for a big rack buck and i hope pa
never goes to pen raising deer to me thats like rasin a rabbit
in your cage pet it feed all yr then one when you let it out and it
is looking at you you bring out the .22 and shoot it
as an archry hunter in bow sesone i wait for a nice buck thou i am not
a horn hunter so to say i just feel that is the time i like to be in the
woods
come rifle sesone does are goin down it is meat time then

uncle buck good point but i am not agaist any group i rather see
everyone be able to get their deer.

RE: what do you want in pa
 

I don't think we have a problem with it at all. Speaking for myself, I feel any buck taken on public ground is a trophy, no matter what size antlers it carries.

RE: what do you want in pa
 

I figured out our problem with the deer herd. People like Buck Magnet who feed the deer.
1.) I thought feeding deer was illegal in PA. If not, it should be.
2.) Anytime, anytime you congregate deer to a feeding area, it is a bad thing. Let wild animals manage themselves and let nature take it's course. It's people like you who do more harm than good. Congregating deer will congregate predators like the coyote, make deer become reliant on your feed and bring in disease. It might make you feel good to feed the deer, but you're hurting the herd. I recommend you to STOP feeding wild animals.

RE: what do you want in pa
 

OK MikeE, why is any buck taken on public ground a trophy but not any deer? Isnt the horn hunting/ wannabe thing just a matter of personal standards? Why is a 3.1 inch spike better than a doe?

RE: what do you want in pa
 

BT... becuz you are killing 3 deer next year with a doe.. With a 3" spike, you're only killing 1 deer.

RE: what do you want in pa
 

CattNY, I dont think BM feeds deer, I think he was making a point. Feeding deer (for the purpose of hunting them) is both illegal in his home state and not good for the herd. Planting food plots is a bit different and is perfectly legal and IMHO not in violaton of fair chase.
Planting crops that feed deer as a by product and planting crops to leave for the deer are not much different. Dumping mass quantities of feed that didnt grow there is baiting and is not fair chase IMHO.

RE: what do you want in pa
 

Hello BT... If you read Buck Magnet's post... He stated he set out feeders... My conclusion on that statement was that he feeds thems to photograph them during the off season. This is not right. One must never feed wild animals, especially in the winter. It changes their diet from the browse they need.

RE: what do you want in pa
 

I must've missed that one.... MY BAD!!!:)

BM, please clear this up for us.

RE: what do you want in pa
 

Funny how some guy's hunting ethics slip when horn hunting enters the picture...it is illegal to hunt migratory birds be it ducks,geese,doves over a food plot you planted with the intention of hunting over. The feds call that baiting an any ethical hunter would never do that. But the same guys (slobs?)will plant the same plots and sit over them for deer trying to kill a food plot semi tame buck just for the egotistical thrill of horn hunting.
Yeah I'm glad to see the minority of hunters in Pa that want to turn it into a HORN state...not!

RE: what do you want in pa
 

First, the idea of keeping ANY kind of hunter from hunting for bucks is selfish at best and contributing to the PETA mentality at worst. It's justs as preposterous to propose no bowhunting for bucks as it would be to say that since rifle hunters kill about 80% of the bucks that we shoud limit rifle buck tags till the rifle buck kill is around 65% since we have about 35% bowhunters.

I also find it disturbing that adults here who don't want to be restricted by AR want to see (since they have to comply with it) that same AR imposed on kids and our active duty servicemen. Kind of a double standard IMHO!!! Personally, I think we need to bend over backwards for our servicemen and our youth!

We've always been horn hunters here in PA. The dispute is over a matter of standards. Some guys want to shoot any buck (with horns) under the old standards and some are happy that the standard has gone up. It seems, at least around here, like people are adjusting to the new standards and seem willing to accept that a doe is just as good as rhar little spike!!!

RE: what do you want in pa
 

Bt go back and reread the post just before your last one...where did I mention in it to stop anyone from hunting bucks?
I refered to planting food plots to hunt over them. The feds say that is illegal to do for migratory birds...why is it suddenly ethical since the inept PGC has not addressed the issue for deer/

are you sure you aren't a card carrying PETA member yourself ? you sure post about their inner working alot

PS I kill button bucks all the time an preach for everyone to do it rather than a doe. I kill them in every legal season with every legal weapon and you know what??? the PGC loves me for it, heck they issue all the tags I need for them. Has it suddenly become illegal to kill them here in PA??????????? why because you want them to grow into MONSTERWHITETAILBUCKS for some sick club????????????????????????????

RE: what do you want in pa
 

Ulysses, you keep talking about this monster Whitetail club. I was just wondering were i could sign up and if i get any neat prizes for joining like a secret society big buck decoder ring.

RE: what do you want in pa
 

who said this on page 1 of this thread???

RE: what do you want in pa
 

shhhh!!!! if you want your secret decoder ring, you cant talk about it here!!!;)

RE: what do you want in pa
 

Look at the latest craze now... look in Walmart, Cabelas, etc., people are selling feeders and seed for food plots. These do not help the herd but hinder it. On private land, where these feeders reside, the herd will congregate and overpopulate. No wonder people are not seeing deer on public land. Slobs are pulling deer with food plots and feeders onto private land. What happens when these slobs run into hard times and can't afford feed or seed anymore... welcome deer starvation. It's no wonder we have CWD, Lyme disease, rabies and West Nile virus worries. It's because of these trophy hunters congregating deer and their predators to their private land. This my friend, is why public land hunting has gone downhill.