This is not meant to disparage any dedicated hunter out there who happens to disagree with the current game plan, but, I can say this:

Here is the typical Alt opponent I've encountered in person

Hunts 1, maybe 2 days a year

Barely leaves sight of the road, andwont go to far for fear of shooting one and actually having to drag it more than 100 yards

values an 85 lb 3" spike far more than a mature doe

Regards drinking and card playing as important, maybe more so , than actually going out and hunting

Hunts the same spot he hunted 20+ years ago

Still thinks does shouldnt be killed or thinks we've been killing too many for years

This may not describe everyone who doesn't like our recent improvements but it DOES pretty much describe the average guy I've heard complain firsthand and face to face.

Here is the Typical Alt supporter I have come in contact with over the last couple of years,
1. Wants AR. because they were unable to harvest a buck over 1.5 years old prior to AR.
2. Believes that you cant harvest a quality buck within view of a road.
3. Believes that our herd is currently increasing despite all the tags because Alt and the Audobon society wouldnt lie, after all isnt the Audobon society pro hunting?
4. Hunts private land with 100 deer per square mile that has limited hunting preasure, and has the misguieded belief that someone else wont buy, lease, or develop the honey they currently hunt, even though they actually do not own the land themselves.
5. Believed Clinton when he said "he didnt have sexual relations with that woman."
6. Believed Alt during his 1st. year of his deer tours when he said" that he thought AR. was a bad idea and said AR. wasnt needed because we could bring the buck to doe ratio back to the way nature intended by just passing on BB.'s.
7. Believes that just because hunting is great in the 10 counties with 4pt. to a side AR. and a 100 deer per square mile that it doesnt matter if hunting sucks everywhere else as long as their hunting stays great.
8. Thinks that our AR. & HR. will cause our state to turn into the next OH. even though they have less than half the amount of hunters PA. has, OH. only has a 7 day shotgun season, while PA. has a 2 week Rifle season, and OH's over winter goal is only 50,000 less deer than Alts goal despite the fact that we have twice as many hunters and the fact that PA. is a larger state aswell as alot more Forested square miles of habitat,
9. Believes the only good deer habitat is Forested Habitat and that states like IA. or IL. are wrong to do so, why? because Alt said so!! and he is the best deer Biologist in the entire country!!( even thought he didnt know what a browse line looked like just 2 years ago)
10. Hopes less deer = less hunters so they have less compition even though less hunters means letting the Anti's control hunting and our public lands just like in MD. & NJ.
11. Believes that 5 deer per square mile is fine as long as the area they hunt isnt reduced that low.
12. Believes that Timber management isnt the real motive
13. Believes they are a better hunter than a non Alt supporter.
14. Believed Baghdad Bob when he said that the Ameicans were NO were close to Baghdad and they would die a terrible death if we tried to enter the city even though our Soilders & Tanks were right out side the building waiting to arrest him.

Just because I have 2 little kids and a demanding job doesn't make me a bad person. I would love to go hunting every day.

Hunting is more important but there are guys up at camp I might only see once a year. We're going to have a little bit of fun at the cabin.

These are generalizations and they're not entirely accurate. My dad plays poker with us and he has been passing on small bucks for about 20 years now.

In general,msot Alt supporters are hunting where the herd is still increasing or at least stabil.They've yet to realize that none of his claims can come true once the herd is reduced statewide to 13 dpsm.

OK Jeff, here we go...
There were very few bucks that lived past 1,5 prior to AR to be harvested by anyone, but go ahead, make my day and challenge me on personally on that one

Of course you can, The issue is willingness to commit and do what it takes to pursue and hopefully harvest an animal that satisfies your standards. The anti Alt guys I'VE MET are not willing to work hard at anything.

We all know that the herd has decreased in some places AND NEEDS TO BE DECREASED SOME MORE! Personally that includes some of my favorite old stomping grounds and that is sad for me and the gang that loves to hunt from my camp. The difference is that we recognize that some time needs to pass with way lower numbers to undo the damage done by past bad practices

100 dpsm??? wha?? where?? who's in la-la land now?

LOLOLOLOLOL


Obviously we saw a different Gary Alt. In the meetings I attended, Alt merely said he was delaying AR a year till we could get the doe license allocation (and the kill) up.

The hunting only sucks if the hunters suck! It is better in some places than others.... adjust, adapt, MOVE ON!

Correction: we believe Alt when he said over and over that Pa is unique and that it will take trial and maybe even some errors to get it right!

Whatever you're smokin, it must be good stuff! Anyone in PA whose spent any time in the big woods knows exactly what a browse line is!!!

Correction: Has faced the fact that a few less deer in the interest of good management takes the wind out of the sails of the PETAphiles that would say that hunters merely manage all game so they have more to kill.

Correction: Understands that DPSM includes all land, not just suitable habitat.


Correction: Understands that without good forest management, all species will eventually suffer. Also is willing to face the fact that landowners don't just manage their resources to please the one day a year hunter.

Correction: believes that the average Alt supporter is more willing to adapt in order to help better the resource.

Believes that the anti Alt crowd is desperate enough to use ridiculous arguements like this to distract from the fact that the vast majority of ALts peers support him and that the VAST majority of his detractors have NO experience in his field.

BarnesX, you must have misunderstood....


Who said that made you a bad person???????


Please read what I said! First I clearly said this was the guys I encountered FACE TO FACE AND IN PERSON. That was a statement of fact and not a generalization.

Second, I enjoy the camp experience as much as the next guy, but we have learned to face the fact that today's deer hunting takes a bit more dedication and willingness to adapt. That means that the traditional deer camp just aint quite what it used to be. We miss it too, but we have decided to move on, adapt, adjust!

First of all, you equate an anti-Alt policy person with being a lousy hunter, yet you nothing about who I am or where I hunt, how I hunt, or how long I hunt.
Second, I should "move on" if I can't find a deer in my old territory. How far should that be? 1 hour, 2 hours, 3 hours away from where I presently hunt? I thought Dr Alt said we have too many deer statewide. I see no reduction in doe tags in my areas, so that tells me he believes there are still too many deer in my area. So where are they? Not on public land.
Third, you insulted Barnes, and others, for not stomping the woods for days in pre-season, and for not hunting numerous days of the seasons. We're not all as lucky as you with time to do so.
Fourth, despite your disclaimer, with your elitist attitude, you seek to alienate numerous hunters by even starting this crap, yet you know nothing about us.

Read it again Mikey! I Started out by saying these were the Anti Alt hunters I'VE MET! If the shoe fits, so be it, but my statements were restricted to people I have met in person.

Mikey, please read my response to him again ...

I specifically made the statement that this was a limited sampling based only on my person to person encounters. I find it interesting that the responses so far are all from those who seem to take it personally.

I'm with BTBowhunter on this one. I think you hit the nail on the head.

I'm not insulted. I know I need to spend more time in the field but I just don't have the time. There are a lot of 1-2 day a year hunters out there who are not dedicated. I've seen them at the sporting goods store the night before the opener buying licenses and rifles. These are the same guys that influence the difference between the number of fishermen on the opening day of trout season and every day after that. More power to 'em - even if they don't catch as many fish. I really on the fence about the whole AR thing, actually. We just found a shed on our property that had 4 points. However, it was about the smallest antler I've ever seen. I thought to myself - "this is a western PA keeper". Then again, shooting every spike or forkhorn isn't great for the herd either. I personally think deer management should be voluntary but that didn't work on public land because not everyone agrees on what deer they should take. I'll let Alt and his detractors duke it out and I'll just poke my head in from time to time.