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Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life

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Old 10-01-2004 | 05:49 PM
  #161  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life

Alt also ask hunters to protect BB and small deer and guess what happened.
If Alt wanted to decimate the herd and use hunters as the uninformed hitmen, because he was on the take to the timber companies and others as you guys claim, why would he ask hunters to pass on BB?

If harvesting BB was crucial to controlling the herd, as you claim, why would Alt ask hunters to pass on BB?

....."Kill a doe and the herd won't grow"......

I never heard anyone but you say "kill a BB and the herd won't grow"

Do you know why? ......Because it is BALONEY!
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Old 10-01-2004 | 05:54 PM
  #162  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life

P.s. Do you know why the herd has grown........



Holdover bucks from AR........ do the math......and check your stats....
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Old 10-01-2004 | 06:23 PM
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Default RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life

If Alt wanted to decimate the herd and use hunters as the uninformed hitmen, because he was on the take to the timber companies and others as you guys claim, why would he ask hunters to pass on BB?
In order to provide a definitive answer to that question , I would have to be able to read Alt's mind. but, since I am not a mind reader ,all I can do is give MHO. Alt figured he could gain the support of archers and trophy hunters by advocating the protection of BB knowing full well that his plea would have little efect. In ARk. they had to force hunters to tag BB as an antlered deer in order to limit the harvest of BB and I am sure Alt was aware of this fact.

"Kill a doe and the herd won't grow"......

I never heard anyone but you say "kill a BB and the herd won't grow"
You never heard anyone say that, because no one including me ever claimed that killing a BB would prevent the herd from growing. What I said was that killing any deer reduced the OW herd by one deer and that not harvesting that deer ,whether it is a BB , anterless buck or an adult doe increased the OWDD by 1 deer and that is an undenialable fact.
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Old 10-01-2004 | 07:47 PM
  #164  
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Default RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life

Once again you ignore that the choice was to harvest 1 mature doe and 6 BB or just harvest 1 mature due. We did not target BB and we would have preferrd that all the deer we harvested were all mature doe or adult buck since we enjoy eating venison .
No, I DON"T CARE that the choice was between killing only one mature doe and 6 more BB or just one doe. I would have killed only the one doe!!! I am willing to do what I believe to be right for the long haul good for all. Get on board with what you claim are your beliefs, pass on the BB's, and if you need meat that bad, come and see me. I have no problem providing plenty of DOE meat to several families. I'd even give YOU some to save a BB!
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Old 10-02-2004 | 05:21 PM
  #165  
 
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Default RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life

I am willing to do what I believe to be right for the long haul good for all. Get on board with what you claim are your beliefs, pass on the BB's, and if you need meat that bad, come and see me.
You may believe that what you are doing is right for the long haul ,but once again th facts prove you are wrong. The PGC reported that in 2003 ,hunters did what you and Alt wanted them to do and reduced the harvest of fawns from the avg. of 46% to 39% in 2003. As a result there were 36.3 K fewer fawns harvested in 2003. But, the anterless harvest also decreased from 352K in 2002 to 322K in 2003, a decrease of 30K. So it is clear that passing on fawns reduces the anterless harvests and prevents us from reducing the herd, which you claim you support.

If we would have harvested those 36K fawns and the 38 K buck saved by Ar we would have reduced the herd by 6%. So, as I said from day one , AR and passing on BB is counter productive to herd reduction, so those that support AR really do not support herd reduction ,although they give it a lot of lip service.
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Old 10-02-2004 | 06:35 PM
  #166  
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Default RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life

The following is a quote from noted whitetail biologist Dr. James C Kroll.



In many areas our whitetail herds are not being properly managed. Do your part to remove does and let young bucks walk. This will help recruit more males into the herd, which will in turn increase genetic diversity. The whitetail is one of the most genetically diverse game species on earth, and maintaining that diversity is key to a healthy herd.
This guy is in the top handful of experts in the world in whitetail biology.
I guess he is on the take to special interests too along with Alt. It is funny how the top experts in the field don't know what they are talking about according to some armchair biologists in PA.
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Old 10-02-2004 | 07:41 PM
  #167  
 
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Default RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life

Note , Dr. Kroll says that we should let young bucks walk, he does not say that we should harvest the big young bucks and let the inferior young bucks survive. Remember also that Dr. Krolls research confirms that the avg. buck saved by AR will be smaller than the avg. 1.5 buck carried over without AR. Letting all young bucks walk will add to the genetic diversity ,but harvesting the best 1.5 buck and allowing the inferior 1.5 buck to survive will have a negative impact on the gene pool in the long term.

Can you provide a link for that quote. I like Dr. Kroll's reports.

"Antler restrictions are not cure-alls for bad genetics or poor food source," says Larry Castle, deer program coordinator for the state of Mississippi. "Mississippi currently has a 4-point restriction statewide. In some areas we have seen substantial improvement, in others none at all. Generally, our concern is that we may be degrading future deer populations by the continued removal of the 'better' [larger-antlered] members of the yearling age-class."
Stephen Demarais, professor of Wildlife Management at Mississippi State University, concurs with Castle's opinion. After intensive monitoring of buck kill on the state's Sunflower WMA, his statistics show a decrease of 19 inches of antlers in the Boone and Crockett scores of 3 1/2-year-old bucks taken on the WMA since the 4-point rule was adopted. This is exactly the effect that some biologists predicted: Over time, the restrictive rule protects smaller-antlered yearlings and allows the harvest of larger-antlered yearlings.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Old 10-02-2004 | 08:24 PM
  #168  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life

Sorry, you can't click and look. You would have to buy North American Whitetail Magazine of which Dr Kroll is a contributor.

It is in the Forum section of the October issue "on newsstands now"
Get the subscription though, it is well worth it. Best deer mag there is.
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Old 10-02-2004 | 10:27 PM
  #169  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life

Note , Dr. Kroll says that we should let young bucks walk, he does not say that we should harvest the big young bucks and let the inferior young bucks survive. Remember also that Dr. Krolls research confirms that the avg. buck saved by AR will be smaller than the avg. 1.5 buck carried over without AR. Letting all young bucks walk will add to the genetic diversity ,but harvesting the best 1.5 buck and allowing the inferior 1.5 buck to survive will have a negative impact on the gene pool in the long term.
Im sorry, I thought we were debating shooting vs. saving BB. I wasn't aware that we were using the two different issues interchangeably.
My bad...I guess.
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Old 10-03-2004 | 10:08 AM
  #170  
 
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Default RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life

The quote you posted referred to letting young bucks walk, not letting BB walk. Therefore, I concluded that the quote was referring to AR . So, my quote is no more off topic than your quote.

But, the bottomline remains that we have more deer than ever and we just had the lowest buck harvest since 1985. In my book that is not scientific deer management , that is failed deer management.
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