well I know 3 guys that did it went to court in lackawanna county ,m and won

its the same deal is if you modify any firearm
you can make it so it works as the legally defined wording
and it reads must be manually operated
thus , again removing gas tube, makes a gas operated AR, a single shot, and MUST be manually operated to work
thus, meets criteria

I again think MOST won;t do this due to NOT wanting the grief, of fighting to prove the right here?
and also, WHY do it, its sort of DUMB,
I am NOT promoting this at all
but am saying it is possible to do so
and again I seen it first hand, get tossed out of court when it was taken there >
SHow me a case where it was NOT!
NOT trying to debate or argue, I just know what I seen with my two eye's and the verdict the judge threw out!
this was in 1998-1998 era

also, I do not see it needing to be permanently changed, as when you hunt with a shotgun, you need a plug , but it can be removed< , same like mod here, as an example
so gun can be used other area's!

also, think of this as a BAD example
BUT if you Modify a AR into full AUTO< it is no longer considered a SEMI?
the reverse is then also true, by BATF rules as well?
I was a gun dealer so, have a little bit of knowledge in this area?
but I am NOT saying I know it all or an expert or to take my advice as 100%< if you desire to do so, its on you
best to ask better than me for insight!
I just again seen it done and what happened, and know what the BATF called each type of firearm!
had them in my shop on several occasions(was a class 3 dealer)

I don't have to think of as anything but illegal. A semi auto is a semi auto until it is permanently made into a rifle that can no longer shoot in a semi auto mode. It would be easy enough for a person to field strip a rifle and remove the part that makes it a semi if he sees someone approaching him. That is why it is not legal to do a temporary fix. I am not going to argue with you, I know how the law is enforced, I enforced it for over 30 years and I know what the PGC tells people who ask if they can make a temporary fix to a semi auto gun. No good comes of telling people they can get away with an illegal act.

Jake, have you ever been on a heavily populated State Game Land on opening day rifle? Say like any of them in South Central PA? I lived around 2 miles from one such Game Land and I can tell you with absolutely NO uncertainty whatsoever that it is one scary place to be!! And I've been under fire in war zones more times than I care to think about! A sea of orange and probably half of them shooting as fast as they can operate their actions so that the fella 20 yards from them can't jump their deer! You put a 10 round mag AR in the hands of some of those idiots and you can bet your last dollar there are going to be problems. Runnin and gunnin is 2nd nature to a lot of those guys and with a semi they will be even MORE dangerous out there. I know this sounds like an "anti" rant but it's just plain old common sense and experience of the situations in many Pa State Game Lands. OT and many others from PA will more than likely agree with me on this issue. Now granted not ALL game lands in PA are overloaded like many are in SCPA and in those areas I would be fine with it. But you get a bunch of idiots in an overcrowded GL with semi's and you are going to have problems. Just simple math there.

I'm not telling anyone to do an illegal act
I know the guys that went to court, I was in court with them, and them won?
when the BATF has been in my shop, they classified firearms as how they worked at the time they handled them, if modified, while IN there hands, and that is what defines the firearm in there class?
this too is s FACT, as I knew it when I sold guns and had to follow regs to do so, for 10+ yrs!
AN AR is Not something than can be easily and FAST In field, broken down to remove the gas tube
BY using this example, you can also then say a GUY can just remove the plug of a shotgun at will and then put it BACK if they see a game warden?
if you wanted to NO
and then the issue would be to PROVE The person was doing such!

NOW if a guy was caught with an AR and had all the parts in his possession, I can see your side,
But if they didn;t(as my friends didn;t)
I cannot see how the firearm can be said to be SEMI AUTO< if it didn;t fit the definition of the classification of a SEMI AUTO
By BATF rules
if it HAS to be manual worked to load a second round it is NOT SEMI AUTO!
NOT trying to argue here, just stating what I know to be true

I will BET you never came across a person hunting with a gas tubed removed AR 15 in your 30 yrs of a game warden, , YES or NO?

as like I said, its DUMB thing to do, and onl;y reaosn I can see anyone really wanting to is to be a smart ass and , the 3 people I knew did so to prove a point, and they won!
they went looking for trouble and found it, yet were 100% in the right at the end
I see NO reason to ever do so
so I am NOT saying its something to do, nor,am I saying every court will find on your side if you do
going to court can be a gamble??
but legally as far as I know a modified gun that ONLY functions in the state its in, is considered what it is by the state it is in!
per BATF rules!
and even if I am correct, in the rule and regulations hand book, it describes a semi auto as a gun that self loads, , so a AR< without a gas tube, will NOT do as such! as it has been modified to NOT work as such!

to each there own, I could again care less?

my wish is that the game commission would not approve it. don't feel we need semi autos to hunt deer. just my opinion.

Look, mrbb, your thinking doesn't mean a thing and the fact that some judge found someone not guilty doesn't mean a thing because unless the verdict was in an appellate court it means nothing for any case except that case, it does not mean those people were right in their actions, if indeed they exist, and it doesn't mean others will not be prosecuted for the same violation. People are found not guilty every day, that does not mean they have not violated the law. Your rationalization is just that, rationalization, because unless a semi auto firearm is rendered a manually operated firearm permanently and can be put back into semi auto mode in the field, it is still a semi auto firearm. I have told you how the law is enforced, not how I think it should be enforced and I am done, so rant on if you like but you will still be wrong in your thinking because that is not how the law is enforced the way the law is enforced.

I actually stated, things if court can always go goofy? all the more so in today's world,
BUT legal definitions are what they are and in laws, and cannot be changed!


and I Actually believe your wrong, as a gas tube isn't really something that can be replaced in the field, as the gas tube has to be pinned in, and most need tools to do so, or cannot do with them!
its NOT a simple thing to replace while a warden is approaching you by any means!
this is NOT an argument here, you have your opinion and I have mine
till laws and codes come out here, I will share one at the bottom on my side?


so, baesed on what I know. there is NO law that says a it has to be preeminently modified, to be called a single shot rifle, it just as to ONLY function as one, , NO self loading or unloading and has to be manually operated! as definition of it!

what about adding a Muzzleloader upper to an AR
or a , the FACT they and make single shot uppers?
these too will ALL make using an AR in the field right now, and it being legal in the right hunt/season!


SO< again, I will strongly disagree with you, based on things I know to be, true,
if you KNOW the law, Please share the code with me
this is NY's
have a look, I gather Pa's is about the same
and the BATF's is also, on this
PER NY's code, didn't see Pa's handy!


Semi-autois well defined in PL265.00, and an AR w/o a gas tube is not semi-auto by definition

http://codes.findlaw.com/ny/penal-la...ct-265-00.html

21. “Semiautomatic” means any repeating rifle, shotgun or pistol, regardless of barrel or overall length, which utilizes a portion of the energy of a firing cartridge or shell to extract the fired cartridge case or spent shell and chamber the next round, and which requires a separate pull of the trigger to fire each cartridge or shell. - See more at: http://codes.findlaw.com/ny/penal-la....TuJHO3SX.dpuf

Okay, not trying to step on toes here OT but you are right and wrong at the same time. What you said about the firearm being able to put it back to semi operation in the field is correct. BUT you obviously haven't dealt with AR's or you would know putting a gas tube back in in the field is a bit more complicated than a simple field strip. It for damn sure aint something that "you could put back in or take out when you saw someone coming". Putting a plug back into a shotgun mag is quite a bit easier than the gas tube on an AR. Granted what mrbb was alluding to was sheer stupidity (I believe he said so himself) but he is in essence correct as far as the law goes. I personally can't see why anyone would want to do it myself other than just being a smartass as there is absolutely no advantage to a manually operated AR over anything.

the federal definition of a a semi auto and its code

18 USCS § 921(28)- The term "semiautomatic rifle" means any repeating rifle which utilizes a portion of the energy of a firing cartridge to extract the fired cartridge case and chamber the next round, and which requires a separate pull of the trigger to fire each cartridge.


SO< again a modified AR that does NOT fit this, is NOT legally classified as a semi auto rifle!