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Old 08-26-2015, 07:19 PM
  #71  
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LittleTime, I have a quick question for you. Do you actually read what you write? Reading is fundamental you know! Lets look at some of your points here,

Point one: You asked for science so here is the science although you wouldn't understand 1/10000 of it......
Establishment of Real-Time QUIC (RT-QUIC)
In the QUIC assays, soluble recombinant PrP (rPrP-sen) expressed in E. coli is used as a substrate to amplify the minute amounts of PrPSc. Using a dedicated shaker, the reaction is enhanced by vigorous intermittent shaking which induces rPrP-sen to aggregate and form fibrils.9 One of the advantages in QUIC is that shaking/agitation can be performed more easily and consistently than sonication, which has the problem of varied delivery of vibrational energy to the samples. On the other hand, further improvement in the rapidity and practicality of this method was required in order for it to become useful in the diagnosis of prion diseases, because the initial standard format of QUIC (S-QUIC) required a time-consuming western blot. Thus, we combined QUIC technology with thioflavin T (ThT) fluorescence dye, to monitor amyloid formation, in order to minimize the time necessary for the detection of protease-resistant rPrP fibrils (rPrP-res). We first determined if the shaking of our fluorescence microplate reader could induce PrPSc-dependent rPrP-res (rPrP-resSc) formation in a buffer containing 0.05–0.1% SDS, as in the S-QUIC. Human rPrP-sen (rHuPrP-sen) and CJD brain homogenate (BH) were used as a substrate and a seed, respectively, for the QUIC reaction. Unexpectedly, we did not observe rPrP-resSc formation or an elevation in the ThT fluorescence using our microplate reader (unpublished data). Our explanation for this is that the shaking power of the microplate reader was not strong enough to elicit the QUIC reactions in the presence of SDS. SDS tends to cause fibrils to stack and stabilize rPrP-res polymers as a result. In fact, we observed that fibrils formed in the presence of SDS were much larger and thicker than those formed in its absence. Taken together, sonication in PMCA or vigorous shaking in S-QUIC seems to be required as a means of fragmenting the rPrP-res polymers formed in the presence of SDS.

We then tested whether rPrP-resSc formation was induced when guanidine-HCl (GdnHCl) was added, because it has been thought that GdnHCl was required for the conversion of PrP-sen to PrP-res in a cell-free system.11 Somewhat unexpectedly, we observed rPrP-resSc formation even in the absence of GdnHCl. In contrast, the negative control reactions without seed and in the absence of GdnHCl exhibited a marked delay in spontaneous rPrP-res (rPrP-resspon) formation.12 For this reason, use of a GdnHCl-free buffer can dramatically reduce the risk of false-positive reactions and enhance the sensitivity of the method.

Shaking/agitation is considered to cause several facilitatory effects on the QUIC reaction. One is that a partial unfolding of a portion of the rPrP-sen is induced by increasing the air-water interface through which a denaturing boundary between the hydrophobic air and hydrophilic water is formed.13 Next, shaking/agitation enhances the interaction between rPrP-sen and PrPSc, and the fragmentation of rPrP-res polymers.14 The energetic barrier of spontaneous fibril formation is likely to be higher than that of seed-dependent fibril formation or elongation, because spontaneous formation initially necessitates nucleation as the rate-limiting step.15

Meanwhile, the extent of the partial unfolding of rPrP-sen by shaking alone is assumed to be more heterogeneous than that in the presence of GdnHCl, probably because the air-water interfaces are unequally distributed in the reaction mixture (Fig. 1). In contrast, the addition of GdnHCl accelerates the nucleation rate, resulting in an increase in the rate of spontaneous fibril formation. Of note, we observed that there was an inverse correlation between the rate of rPrP-res formation and the concentration of rPrP-sen substrate.12 It has been reported that the aggregation rate of several other proteins is inversely correlated with the concentration of substrate protein in a denaturant-free buffer with shaking.16,17 Conversely, previous studies using cell-free conversion18 and rPrP fibril formation,19–21 respectively, in the presence of denaturant or at low pH, have shown that the rate of PrP-res formation was directly proportional to the PrP-sen concentration. This seeming contradiction can be explained again by the difference in the denaturation status of PrP-sen under various conditions. We hypothesized that heterogenous denaturation of the substrate protein in a denaturant-free buffer with shaking is a major cause of the inverse correlation
We examined the effect of pH, and the concentrations of rHuPrP-sen and salt, on QUIC reactions in a GdnHCl-free buffer. We found that the presence of NaCl is essential for rPrP-res formation and the sensitivity of this method was maximal at 500 mM NaCl at pH 7.12 The requirement for NaCl in the formation of rPrP-res is compatible with previous studies, which have shown that salt is required for cell-free conversion in the absence of GdnHCl22 and the maintenance of a protease-resistant PrPSc conformation.23

We named this new assay “real-time QUIC (RT-QUIC)” by analogy with real-time PCR. The RT-QUIC enabled us to measure up to 96 replicates at a time, obtain the results immediately, and is potentially safer than S-QUIC or PMCA because the prions are sealed within a 96-well plate throughout the entire procedure.
Point two: No, it means that the researchers infected a whitetail deer and then tested said deer a few days later. They didn't "take a needle and syringe and put it in the urine" They infected a whitetail deer then tested urine, fecal matter, and blood.

Point three: See point two for basic understanding of how research has to be done. If it doesn't speak for itself then you are dimmer than I originally thought and that's pretty difficult.

Since CWD has such a LONG incubation period followed by the length of time it takes for it to debilitate an animal it makes it highly improbable to get samples from WILD deer for research. The reason it's so easily found in your farmed deer is because of access. Plain and simple. If you can't grasp that very simplistic concept there is no helping you. My pre-middle school grandsons (twins) figured it out all by their little lonesomes.

Your drivel has shot your own arguments in the foot. Your misconceptions of CWD and comparisons to EHD has shot you in the other foot. You no longer have a foot to stand on. You are now dismissed. Class over. Have a nice night
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Old 08-26-2015, 07:47 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by super_hunt54
LittleTime, I have a quick question for you. Do you actually read what you write? Reading is fundamental you know! Lets look at some of your points here,

Point one: You asked for science so here is the science although you wouldn't understand 1/10000 of it......


Point two: No, it means that the researchers infected a whitetail deer and then tested said deer a few days later. They didn't "take a needle and syringe and put it in the urine" They infected a whitetail deer then tested urine, fecal matter, and blood.

Point three: See point two for basic understanding of how research has to be done. If it doesn't speak for itself then you are dimmer than I originally thought and that's pretty difficult.

Since CWD has such a LONG incubation period followed by the length of time it takes for it to debilitate an animal it makes it highly improbable to get samples from WILD deer for research. The reason it's so easily found in your farmed deer is because of access. Plain and simple. If you can't grasp that very simplistic concept there is no helping you. My pre-middle school grandsons (twins) figured it out all by their little lonesomes.

Your drivel has shot your own arguments in the foot. Your misconceptions of CWD and comparisons to EHD has shot you in the other foot. You no longer have a foot to stand on. You are now dismissed. Class over. Have a nice night
Again....Man infected the deer!!!!! What part dont you understand? A deer did not and has never! I could infect your AZZ with Aids, Cancer, The swine flu...You name it and then of course you are going to find it..... So unless you are saying some little man is going to run around and infect every deer before it takes a wizz in somebodys collection building then its a slim chance to have CWD.....As we can see.It has not yet after 60 years. You keep bringing up man made Edited by JW Language. Stick to whitetails and show me a case of CWD in a positive whitetails urine!!!! You are pretty simple.
You speak of only farmed deer. Show me a case of the CWD prion in a farmed deers urine!
As far as EHD it has ruined your own state year after year. How many documented cases of dead deer that died from CWD do you have in your state? I mean really...Your states wild vermin has had just more cases of CWD than 20 states put together. With that many wild cases you should be able to show a documented case! Good luck with that. I will wait.

Are you ever going to answer the question of shutting down all crop farms in CWD positive states? Its a pretty simple question!

Last edited by JW; 08-27-2015 at 07:53 PM. Reason: HNI Rule 1 Language
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Old 08-26-2015, 08:43 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by BigTime1
Again....Man infected the deer!!!!! What part dont you understand? A deer did not and has never! I could infect your AZZ with Aids, Cancer, The swine flu...You name it and then of course you are going to find it..... So unless you are saying some little man is going to run around and infect every deer before it takes a wizz in somebodys collection building then its a slim chance to have CWD.....As we can see.It has not yet after 60 years. You keep bringing up man made Edited by JW. Stick to whitetails and show me a case of CWD in a positive whitetails urine!!!! You are pretty simple.
You speak of only farmed deer. Show me a case of the CWD prion in a farmed deers urine!
As far as EHD it has ruined your own state year after year. How many documented cases of dead deer that died from CWD do you have in your state? I mean really...Your states wild vermin has had just more cases of CWD than 20 states put together. With that many wild cases you should be able to show a documented case! Good luck with that. I will wait.

Are you ever going to answer the question of shutting down all crop farms in CWD positive states? Its a pretty simple question!
You are pretty good at answering your own questions and then avoiding said answer. Are you really that dim? Look at the highlighted and bold that I laid out for you. How do you think you found all those "cases" you so loudly throw out there without DOCUMENTATION! You snatching those statistics out of the air? No. There are hundreds and hundreds of documented cases. Deer taken by hunters, deer found dead, deer hit by cars. And as far as EHD goes, the only case where it has taken more than a hundred or so in a year was the Milk River Montana infection which was caused by a severe infestation on Midge Flies. It hasn't "ruined" the state of Illinois hunting at all. 2012 and 2013 we had a pretty bad outbreak totaling around 1200-1300 deer both years. We had a pretty rough drought those 2 years which increased the gnats (midge flies) and hit the higher populations of whitetail in western IL. 1200-1300 sounds like a lot but state wide, not so bad. Many more deer were infected but survived (many survive it unlike CWD) and had an immunity built up. Again, shooting yourself in the foot. Basic education and understanding is required for this discussion and you have shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have neither.

As far as your question about crops, I'm not a farmer so I am not that up on crops. This isn't a Farming forum but a hunting and fishing forum. You want to talk about crop related issues I would suggest going to the farmers almanac forum http://www.almanac.com/ and pose that question there. Class dismissed yet again. SMH at this guy coming to a gun fight with a straw and spitball

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Old 08-26-2015, 08:49 PM
  #74  
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Another question, how is it you say there are no documented cases of CWD yet you say this on another forum
Be careful of using corn. You very well could be hand feeding the herd CWD. Farmers in CWD positive states are sending corn and hay all across the country and are most likely spreading the prions right along with it.
Pick a side son! Either the disease doesn't exist and isn't transmitted through fecal matter and urine into the ground and crops or it does.
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Old 08-27-2015, 04:02 AM
  #75  
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Super, that ridiculous post regarding the scent attractant s about pushing products made from pen raised deer and nothing else. He has the audacity to come on a public forum and say there is no evidence of prions being in urine when there are volumes of research to the contrary. His posts are insulting to anyone with even half a brain. A good snapshot of the people who pen raise deer for money and will lie to your face to keep their business going regardless if it is dangerous to wild deer and elk. This guy is so transparent you could use him for a window.
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Old 08-27-2015, 04:26 AM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by super_hunt54
You are pretty good at answering your own questions and then avoiding said answer. Are you really that dim? Look at the highlighted and bold that I laid out for you. How do you think you found all those "cases" you so loudly throw out there without DOCUMENTATION! You snatching those statistics out of the air? No. There are hundreds and hundreds of documented cases. Deer taken by hunters, deer found dead, deer hit by cars. And as far as EHD goes, the only case where it has taken more than a hundred or so in a year was the Milk River Montana infection which was caused by a severe infestation on Midge Flies. It hasn't "ruined" the state of Illinois hunting at all. 2012 and 2013 we had a pretty bad outbreak totaling around 1200-1300 deer both years. We had a pretty rough drought those 2 years which increased the gnats (midge flies) and hit the higher populations of whitetail in western IL. 1200-1300 sounds like a lot but state wide, not so bad. Many more deer were infected but survived (many survive it unlike CWD) and had an immunity built up. Again, shooting yourself in the foot. Basic education and understanding is required for this discussion and you have shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have neither.

As far as your question about crops, I'm not a farmer so I am not that up on crops. This isn't a Farming forum but a hunting and fishing forum. You want to talk about crop related issues I would suggest going to the farmers almanac forum http://www.almanac.com/ and pose that question there. Class dismissed yet again. SMH at this guy coming to a gun fight with a straw and spitball
My word your light is on pretty dim huh. I didnt ask for ANOTHER case of humans causing something. You said deer have DIED FROM CWD and you said that prions have been FOUND IN URINE.
You cant't show documented cases of either without the help of man! Period!!! You are right, 99.9% of the cases of CWD were found AFTER the perfectly healthy deer were shot by MAN or ran over by MAN. You cant show a case where a deer died from CWD, Just speculation and very few of them at that. That is not what is called a highly infectable disease. Not even close. More deer were found dead in your state alone, in one pond, than were found positive for CWD,after being killed by MAN, in the whole country. Period.
As far as topic, You still cant and wont be able to show the class a natural case of the CWD prion being found in whitetail urine.
Jeeze, You say we have the easy deer to research because they are behind fence, Which is so true because we are the only ones testing deer! The states dont even think its worth the effort or the cash to test any longer and we cant even find the CWD prion in deer that are CWD positive in nodes and brain!!! Yup that sounds like something that cause an epidemic!
I like how you use the backdoor on the crop question! You are just like every other agenda pusher. Its ok to shut down the Bambi vector because it MIGHT be able to spread disease but dont want to shut down something that 100% fully tested and fully that farmers are spreading the SAME EXACT CWD PRION across the country and world that very well could be the biggest reason that there is CWD at all. Deer eats crops-Deer gets CWD! But yes lets let those combines work and bag up that corn in the CWD hot zone in Wisconsin and bag it up to sell...and spread CWD..on every Tractor Supply store across the nation! Thats how your agenda pushers think. Its not the CWD..Its the Whitetail. If you really cared about this crap you would be screaming to stop the biggest vector there is for spreading CWD.
Not just one of the smallest!
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Old 08-27-2015, 04:30 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by super_hunt54
Another question, how is it you say there are no documented cases of CWD yet you say this on another forum

Pick a side son! Either the disease doesn't exist and isn't transmitted through fecal matter and urine into the ground and crops or it does.
Pretty simple son....The CWD is found in the corn this guy is being told to feed his deer. Not in any urine or fecal matter.

That is unless that little guy you keep talking about comes around with his needle and syringe and injects the prion into it, you know, the only way they can say and show it can be found or spread!
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Old 08-27-2015, 04:39 AM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by Oldtimr
Super, that ridiculous post regarding the scent attractant s about pushing products made from pen raised deer and nothing else. He has the audacity to come on a public forum and say there is no evidence of prions being in urine when there are volumes of research to the contrary. His posts are insulting to anyone with even half a brain. A good snapshot of the people who pen raise deer for money and will lie to your face to keep their business going regardless if it is dangerous to wild deer and elk. This guy is so transparent you could use him for a window.
You have been givin the chance for days to prove your words. You have failed at every attempt. Again...Care to show this research where CWD prion was found in any whitetail deer naturally?????

Or do you and your buddy have the same little man running around in his white coat,needle and syringe. Because thats the only way you will ever see the CWD prion in whitetail deer urine because they sure the heck cant find any in any actual whitetail deer. Even deer that are 100% brain and node positive! Please take the day and try to come up with something to back up your words.
Mine are backed up 100% by science and research. Not Agendas!
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Old 08-27-2015, 04:55 AM
  #79  
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There is something wrong with you. None of the cases of CWD in my state have been because anyone inoculated the deer with it. Your lies and nonsense to protect your industry are making you look I will say silly but the real word is stronger than that. What has been posted has been proven and I really don't care if you want to live in some la la land where reality doesn't exist. You and your lies and insanity have done more to prove that those who raise freaks in pens do not care about anything but themselves and your blathering shows better than anyone here that the entire so called industry should be shut down. Don't bother repeating your nonsense, it is old . I hope you get depopulated again because it is obvious you could not care less about the wild deer in this country. Your rhetoric reminds me of the skit on Monty python where a customer brings a dead parrot back to a pet store and the store owner denies the parrot is dead over and over again. The parrot you are trying to sell, is dead!
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Old 08-27-2015, 05:26 AM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by Oldtimr
There is something wrong with you. None of the cases of CWD in my state have been because anyone inoculated the deer with it. Your lies and nonsense to protect your industry are making you look I will say silly but the real word is stronger than that. What has been posted has been proven and I really don't care if you want to live in some la la land where reality doesn't exist. You and your lies and insanity have done more to prove that those who raise freaks in pens do not care about anything but themselves and your blathering shows better than anyone here that the entire so called industry should be shut down. Don't bother repeating your nonsense, it is old . I hope you get depopulated again because it is obvious you could not care less about the wild deer in this country. Your rhetoric reminds me of the skit on Monty python where a customer brings a dead parrot back to a pet store and the store owner denies the parrot is dead over and over again. The parrot you are trying to sell, is dead!
Well sir...Lets see, You live in Pa....Very simple state....Found in a deer in Adams county. Perfectly healthy deer hits fence and breaks her neck and dies, Tested and found positive! 200lbs on the hoof healthy deer. Not sick. Not wasting away.
Here comes the wild herd..Where it came from it the first place most likely...Hunter harvested healthy deer and healthy deer blasted on the highway. Tested and found positive. Not sick, Not wasting away.

If you were paying attention to what you were reading all along you would see we were talking whitetail urine and CWD. Only CWD ever found in whitetail deer piss was put there by man's hand's.

If you are going to comment on something please try to stay on tract with the conversation. All the rest of your babble is same agenda pushing crap that comes from few. Depopulated? Not a threat without animals! Facts tell the truth!

Last edited by BigTime1; 08-27-2015 at 05:28 AM.
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