Scent ban in Pa?
08-25-2015, 07:32 AM
#41
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,695
Looks like ole WildOutdoorWhtl made himself a cover ID so he could continue on with his ignorance. First off, I think it was fairly clear when I said "can't be detected until the animal is showing signs" I meant on a LIVE animal. I do believe anyone with a brain cell would pick up on that. Second, they don't die from the CWD itself. They die from complications derived from the CWD such as, but not limited to, pneumonia caused from inhalation of over produced saliva, starvation, literally scared to death (adrenaline surge causing heart attack), and several other means which are all traced back to the disease. Kind of like HIV doesn't kill the patient but the complications derived from the disease. And are you trying to tell all these nice folks that only 2 deer have died from CWD? I'll quote you here so when you decide to pull your posts this one will stay
First off, prions aren't running rampant throughout the body, They are primarily found in the nodes and nervous system tissue BUT they have been found OFTEN in the urine from infected animals. How else do you think it gets into the ground? Through the saliva and urine and feces!
I'm no armchair scientist. I've worked with many animal biologists all over the country aiding in herd counts, overpopulation control, and disease control issues. I kind of picked up a thing or 2. Maybe you should try it. Knowledge has a tendency to improve ones life.
You say CWD spread in urine, Care to explain how every deer that was node tested and brain tested positive-Which was 2 animals!..and both were negitive when urine tested for the CWD prion.
I'm no armchair scientist. I've worked with many animal biologists all over the country aiding in herd counts, overpopulation control, and disease control issues. I kind of picked up a thing or 2. Maybe you should try it. Knowledge has a tendency to improve ones life.
08-25-2015, 07:34 AM
#42
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: south eastern PA
Posts: 15,437
Why would I want to be careful? You shot off your own toes with your own post" The origin of CWD is unknown, and it may never be possible to definitively determine how or when CWD arose." Many people know the disease started west of the Mississippi, had been there for years and recently and by recently I don;t mean last year, it appeared on the east side of the Mississippi. It is also known it is in the same family as scrapie and Mad cow disease. So I don't have to be care, I posted most of this a while back. It is likely the disease was carried across the Mississippi by someone bringing new stock to a deer farm but no one knows. However your pronounce that the government brought it east of the Mississippi and I assume from you post by bringing elk east to start a herd is the culprit is pure speculation as are all the other posibilities. As far as interstate transportation now that we know about CWD and the inability to destroy it and its longevity living in the soil and plant roots,it is flat out stupid for anyone to do so, including state agencies. The big thing no one wants to talk about is the proclivity of prions to jump species barriers and affect other species that it in the past did not affect. That would include humans as Mad cow affects humans and there is no cure except death. If mad cow jumps the species barrier to affect humans and perhaps domestic cattle, deer hunting will be a thing of the past in any state where CWD pops up. You may want to promote a caviler approach to CWD but prion diseases are little understood by science so caution is the prudent tack to take.
08-25-2015, 07:35 AM
#43
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: south eastern PA
Posts: 15,437
Yes Super, either that or someone he contacted to support him.
08-25-2015, 07:49 AM
#44
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Onslow County, NC
Posts: 1,856
I was just going to overlook his posts because they clearly showed either very little understanding or an intentional refusal to understand an issue.
BUT,
The only test that has ever been used to definitively prove CWD has been tissue sampling and that is still true to this day. Gains have been made in testing and in clinical testing the prions have been found in urine, feces, and saliva, but the new tests used for testing MCD are showing they may be adjusted to test for CWD. All relatively recent breakthroughs.
If you would like some reading:
Food Safety
CWD and Human prion protein
CWD.org
BUT,
The only test that has ever been used to definitively prove CWD has been tissue sampling and that is still true to this day. Gains have been made in testing and in clinical testing the prions have been found in urine, feces, and saliva, but the new tests used for testing MCD are showing they may be adjusted to test for CWD. All relatively recent breakthroughs.
If you would like some reading:
Food Safety
CWD and Human prion protein
CWD.org
08-25-2015, 07:59 AM
#45
Spike
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 5
I did not create another account... I did not contact other people...
08-25-2015, 08:09 AM
#46
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,695
LOL WildOutdoorWhtl whatever you say. You sat and "watched" this posting for quite a while while the "other" id posted it's little BS "quoting some of the identical stuff you put up" so yeah it's a little suspect to say the least. We aren't a bunch of dumb rednecks on this site sir. Many of us are highly educated, highly experienced, TRUE outdoorsmen and not some armchair computer jocks getting info from Google that is so outdated it's ridiculous.
08-25-2015, 09:41 AM
#47
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,747
Well I've read every post on here and I have to side with the non-use of any urine based scent. Whether or not the cause of CWD is known anything a sensible hunter can do to prevent the disease from spreading is well worth it. If this means not using a urine based scent so be it.
Is your ego so big or your hunting skills so bad (or your wallet so greedy) that you can't go without the ability to lure a buck into shooting range?
As for the disease itself, I will be first to admit I know very little about it except that it is bad for a deer herd. And for my own hunting future and that of my grandchildren if not using urine based scents is all I have to do to ensure it then that is what I will do.
Is your ego so big or your hunting skills so bad (or your wallet so greedy) that you can't go without the ability to lure a buck into shooting range?
As for the disease itself, I will be first to admit I know very little about it except that it is bad for a deer herd. And for my own hunting future and that of my grandchildren if not using urine based scents is all I have to do to ensure it then that is what I will do.
08-25-2015, 12:17 PM
#48
Spike
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 62
Looks like ole WildOutdoorWhtl made himself a cover ID so he could continue on with his ignorance. First off, I think it was fairly clear when I said "can't be detected until the animal is showing signs" I meant on a LIVE animal. I do believe anyone with a brain cell would pick up on that. Second, they don't die from the CWD itself. They die from complications derived from the CWD such as, but not limited to, pneumonia caused from inhalation of over produced saliva, starvation, literally scared to death (adrenaline surge causing heart attack), and several other means which are all traced back to the disease. Kind of like HIV doesn't kill the patient but the complications derived from the disease. And are you trying to tell all these nice folks that only 2 deer have died from CWD? I'll quote you here so when you decide to pull your posts this one will stay First off, prions aren't running rampant throughout the body, They are primarily found in the nodes and nervous system tissue BUT they have been found OFTEN in the urine from infected animals. How else do you think it gets into the ground? Through the saliva and urine and feces!
I'm no armchair scientist. I've worked with many animal biologists all over the country aiding in herd counts, overpopulation control, and disease control issues. I kind of picked up a thing or 2. Maybe you should try it. Knowledge has a tendency to improve ones life.
I'm no armchair scientist. I've worked with many animal biologists all over the country aiding in herd counts, overpopulation control, and disease control issues. I kind of picked up a thing or 2. Maybe you should try it. Knowledge has a tendency to improve ones life.
08-25-2015, 04:39 PM
#49
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,695
All a bunch of speculations on your part. You say you worked this and know that? Show the research that has found CWD in whitetail urine.You quoted me on an unfinished statement on my part that should have read....When the Iowa farm was depopulated there were only 2 positives by brain and node and neither one of them could show prions in their urine. You tell me. All speculation and scare tactics. CWD is killing nothing anywhere with such small % that contacts it and in most every case when CWD shows up at your doorstep your herd gets bigger. You were asked a couple times to back your words up with research and science and you have done neither. And those in the know..Know Why!
These protein-based infectious agents cause the characteristic spongy degeneration of the brain, leading to emaciation, abnormal behavior, loss of bodily functions, and death. As such, they are responsible for a group of fatal diseases referred to as transmissible spongiform encephalopathy (TSE). The group includes so-called “mad cow disease” (bovine spongiform encephalopathy, or BSE) in cattle, scrapie in sheep, and variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease in humans, which, according to the World Health Organization, has been “strongly linked” to eating beef products contaminated with central nervous system tissue, such as spinal cord and brain, from cows infected with mad cow disease.
Soto’s team analyzed the retention of CWD and other infectious prion proteins and their infectivity in wheat grass roots and leaves that had been incubated with prion-contaminated material. They discovered that even highly diluted amounts of the material can bind to the roots and leaves. From there, they fed the wheat grass to hamsters, which became infected with the disease.
The team also found the infectious prion proteins in plants that had been exposed to urine and feces from prion-infected hamsters and deer.
In addition, the team found that plants can uptake prions from contaminated soil and transport them to different parts of the plant. By doing this, the plants can act as a carrier of CWD.
This means, Soto said, that plants may play an important role in environmental prion contamination and the horizontal transmission of the disease. (Horizontal transmission occurs when an infectious agent is transmitted between members of the same species.)
Scientists already knew that these CWD prions are good at binding to soil, especially clay-based soils, and that they can persist there. Soto said that when some of the soil where an infected dead animal had been buried was injected into research animals several years after it had been buried, the injected animals came down with prion disease.
Soto’s team analyzed the retention of CWD and other infectious prion proteins and their infectivity in wheat grass roots and leaves that had been incubated with prion-contaminated material. They discovered that even highly diluted amounts of the material can bind to the roots and leaves. From there, they fed the wheat grass to hamsters, which became infected with the disease.
The team also found the infectious prion proteins in plants that had been exposed to urine and feces from prion-infected hamsters and deer.
In addition, the team found that plants can uptake prions from contaminated soil and transport them to different parts of the plant. By doing this, the plants can act as a carrier of CWD.
This means, Soto said, that plants may play an important role in environmental prion contamination and the horizontal transmission of the disease. (Horizontal transmission occurs when an infectious agent is transmitted between members of the same species.)
Scientists already knew that these CWD prions are good at binding to soil, especially clay-based soils, and that they can persist there. Soto said that when some of the soil where an infected dead animal had been buried was injected into research animals several years after it had been buried, the injected animals came down with prion disease.
I really don't see how you can say half the stuff you are blathering on about. The disease is known, it's affects are known, it's destructiveness and cruelty are known. How it's transmitted is becoming known now with all this research and study. Scientists don't know everything about it yet but they are getting a handle on the specifics and trying their best to put this disease to rest.
Shining a light on a subject does little for the blind.