Oldtimr

HJ, I didn't say you actually said that, you and I were discussing archery season being earlier than gun season and you asked when did gun come in first and I told you and gave you the year. there was more discussion between us before the thread got derailed by another poster bringing up the nonsense of the insurance companies becoming involved in lobbying for less deer. I was refering to the discussion, that you and I were having and I was the one who asked what would happen if it did happen if the PGC did open buck season before archery, just as an example of it all depends on whose ox is getting gored when to comes to complaining. This is what happens when a thread gets diverted by someone who wasn't involved in the origional conversation and intentions get lost. Have a good one.

hatchet jack

No problem . have a good one .

HJ

TWOWITHONE

I believe the Insurance Co,s had a lot too do with Pa.s deer HR. There are to many backroom deals made in the Rotundra in Harrisburg notice I didn't say Emlenton Ave. Who would have ever thought that Pa. would have a Porcupine season but we do now.You don't have to look far to see who got this started. Guess what was introduced to eradicate the Porcupine you guessed it Mr.Fisher. Now the Fisher is causing big troubles with everything else except deer. You name it he,s eating it. Rabbits, Pheasants, Turkeys, and on and on. So now there is a season open for the Fisher who was supposed to solve the Porcupines misbehavings eating tree bark killing trees before their time or eating the metal signs that DCNR puts up. Do I believe their was a meeting that took place because of the Porcupine darn tootin there was.

dougl

And what evidence do you have to support your position that the insurance companies have anything to do with Pa's deer herd?Were there meeting about the reintroduction of fishers?Of course there were and their reintroduction was public knowledge.

I do have to get one thing strait.Are you saying that the insurance industry lobbied the PGC or legislators?

TWOWITHONE

The same evidence you have. Are you the CEO of all the Allstate insurance companies in Pa. and your gonna type on this board that backroom deals aren't done with the GC. And then my second part of my post why would you have a porcupine season come on Dce just a little out of the extranorarily don't you think a porcupine season for real. Would you say Collins Pine company went to a GC. meeting and asked for a porcupine season. Sure the Fisher was public knowledge but it was reintroduced to eradicate the porcupine period. How many porcupines have you harvested DCE up there in Clearfield Co. I didn't look in the digest real good but is there a possum season Doug. Who said anything about being lobbied. Lobbied are public knowledge, backroom deals are private.

dougl

1.No I'm not the CEO but I own an agency so I have a very good handle on what's a concern and what isn't.Deer are not a concern and there isn't one bit of evidence that suggests that anyone from the insurance industry has ever asked the PGC or the legislators for less deer.
2.Collins Pines,DCNR,Farmers and other stakeholders were never shy about publicly asking for less deer.The insurance industry never has.As far as porcupines,if they're damaging tress,then that would make Collins Pines a stake holder.I have no information that they ever asked for less porkys.However,I doubt it would be a secret if they had.Porcupines are a nuisance if there's too many.Not only do they eat the bark off of trees,they damage property including buildings,vehicles,tractors,not to mention what they do to dogs.
3.I never shoot porcupines when I see them I in the woods and I see them almost every time I'm out there.We're loaded with them up here.I live on a horse farm out in the middle of no where.The dogs stay on our property but they run free when we're outside.I kill every one I see on my property.So far this year,we've only killed one.
4.Possums,skunks and weasels have no closed season other than on sundays.No,I've never killed any of them.A skunk just made a mess out of my lawn so if I see that bugger,it's gonna die.
5.We also have fishers up here but where the habitat is suitable,we still have plenty of turkeys,squirrels and grouse.What I've really noticed a sharp decline of is woodchucks.Fifteen years ago,I used to kill 60+/year.This year we've hunted them harder than usual because my son likes to shoot them.I think he's only up to 6 or so for the season and most of them were shot on our property.Last year he only killed about 15.

TWOWITHONE

Doug I know you own your company you've told everyone that for yrs now Chip Ganasi owns a Ford Dealershiop to and he gets his orders from Detroit where the biggg bosses work. The rest of my post is just icing on the cake. Did you read the last Pa. Outdoors news on the habitat the GC.didnt fare well there as a matter they flunked. In a round about way it was about the regeneration in the forest THATS NOT HAPPENING after 10 yrs of HR. go figure. I could go on and on with other things also like farmers take a hit on their crops when they plant them with the turkeys destryin their winter wheat and so on lets have a more liberal season on them 3 hens 3 gobblers.I know its hard for you to go against their practices but when you put AR in a SRA area is just like whos watching the store.

TWOWITHONE

Part of the problem is Insurance companies send lobbyist's to the NRC to make it look like deer collision's are worse then what they are they don's like to pay out on these type of accidents.That's why your not going to get an actual number,this has happened in other states years ago and deer populations almost where wiped completely out.Also the county i live in is set for 8 does to be taken per hunter and i have watched doe herds drop from 12-15 in the past five years to 3-4 last year.

Habitat Warrior I did,nt want you to feel like the Maytag repairman.

olsaltydog

First, my experience with wildlife management has also been --> no auto insurance company has ever lobbied for increasing deer takes due to car accidents. The cost and payout for deer collisions is rather insignificant when compared to all other payouts. Now other groups have always tried to use auto accident numbers (provided by state farm) to promote their agenda but the data has always spoken for itself. Auto accidents coincided with the amount of motor vehicles on the road or suburban sprawling. Increase the traffic on the roads just so happened to increase deer collisions, go figure, same with reducing deer habitat you then push more deer into the roadsides.

If you believe that auto insurance companies are lobbying your commission then you can find out easily. All meetings are recording and by going over the minutes you will find all public comments and even the subjects being talked about by the commission members themselves. If someone was lobbying then you would find the commissioners speaking about increasing takes at one of these meetings. The same commissioner will also have the data available to support their request for management changes provided by the states biologists. So if you feel insurance is opting for back door deals then you will find a request not supported by the states biologists.

The farmers bureau which represents farmers nearly everywhere is a primary force along with the timber companies that speak about increases in deer takes. Farmers due to crop damage from my experience. This has been pretty universal but also the same reason programs have been opened in most states to allow farmers to harvest deer damaging their crops out of season.

TWOWITHONE

Our Commissioners right now go against the GC. biologist when it comes time for doe tag allotments they squabble over them.