PA deer management plan gets an A-
02-24-2010, 01:48 PM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
Good grades should not be given for having good intentions, they should be given for producing the predicted results. So has the plan produced more and larger buck than ever before as Alt predicted? Did the breeding window decrease and are the predators now being flooded with fawns? Has forest health and regeneration increased significantly where the herd has been reduced the most? Has the DCNR and PGC stopped fencing cuts even in areas that were DMAPPED?
Other than just reducing the harvest,after 10 years ,what has the plan produced?
Other than just reducing the harvest,after 10 years ,what has the plan produced?
02-24-2010, 02:22 PM
#12
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
Thought this was supposed to be an unbiased audit. Why was dcnr interviewed on WMI's "fact finding" mission? THis audit wasnt done of or for dcnr. It was supposed to be an audit of pgc who are supposedly independent of dcnr.. And done because of high hunter dissent. Period. But it sounds like the fox was in the hen house right from the get go. And apparently the "foxes" word was taken as the gospel as it pertains to our regeneration issues.
02-24-2010, 03:18 PM
#13
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
IMHO the fact that WMI interviewed DCNR does not mean the audit was biased. But , when WMI stated that no stakeholder grouped benefited more than any other group, that was simply laughable. It is blatantly obvious that DCNR and the timber industry benefited the most from the plan while the hunters suffered the most.
The PGC DMP is actually a timber management plan and has little to do with scientific deer management since the plan is not based on the true carrying capacity of the habitat. Instead it is based on the regeneration of commercially valuable timber that exists in our current forests.
The PGC DMP is actually a timber management plan and has little to do with scientific deer management since the plan is not based on the true carrying capacity of the habitat. Instead it is based on the regeneration of commercially valuable timber that exists in our current forests.
02-24-2010, 03:59 PM
#14
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
IMHO the fact that WMI interviewed DCNR does not mean the audit was biased. But , when WMI stated that no stakeholder grouped benefited more than any other group, that was simply laughable. It is blatantly obvious that DCNR and the timber industry benefited the most from the plan while the hunters suffered the most.
The PGC DMP is actually a timber management plan and has little to do with scientific deer management since the plan is not based on the true carrying capacity of the habitat. Instead it is based on the regeneration of commercially valuable timber that exists in our current forests.
The PGC DMP is actually a timber management plan and has little to do with scientific deer management since the plan is not based on the true carrying capacity of the habitat. Instead it is based on the regeneration of commercially valuable timber that exists in our current forests.
And why should we not manage for the forest to regenerate with the same timber species that are there now?
02-24-2010, 04:17 PM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
And why should we not manage for the forest to regenerate with the same timber species that are there now?
furthermore, replacing the existing canopy is in opposition to mother natures grand plan which means that shade tolerant species that develop under a closed canopy replace the existing canopy of less shade tolerant species.
02-24-2010, 05:16 PM
#16
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Carbon County Pa.
Posts: 601
BT. quit trying to spin #'s! What % of their electorate do you think actually care about the deer wars at all?
For example we have 13 million residents in PA. and I promise you less than 15% of us even think about the whitetail deer unless they happen to be driving down the road and see one feeding in a field etc. and say aw look at bambi, aint it cute!! I hate to break it to you but 85% of us could care less either way about this subject and it never even crosses their mind. Why? Because this subject doesnt effect or CONCERN them either way in their daily lives and they have far greater things that CONCERN them each and every minute of every day that they do care about and that does effect them and their families. Pike
For example we have 13 million residents in PA. and I promise you less than 15% of us even think about the whitetail deer unless they happen to be driving down the road and see one feeding in a field etc. and say aw look at bambi, aint it cute!! I hate to break it to you but 85% of us could care less either way about this subject and it never even crosses their mind. Why? Because this subject doesnt effect or CONCERN them either way in their daily lives and they have far greater things that CONCERN them each and every minute of every day that they do care about and that does effect them and their families. Pike
this subject CONCERNS them when they are cutting a $500 deductible check on a $3500 repair bill after they clobber one. Or when a contractor hydroseeds a steep slope with a special grass mix and deer tear it up that night. or when bucks use someones expensive trees in their yards for buck rubs. deer can cost the average non hunter a lot of money in damage during the coarse of the year.
02-24-2010, 07:27 PM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
Or when a contractor hydroseeds a steep slope with a special grass mix and deer tear it up that night. or when bucks use someones expensive trees in their yards for buck rubs
02-24-2010, 07:32 PM
#19
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: York, PA.
Posts: 1,313
this subject CONCERNS them when they are cutting a $500 deductible check on a $3500 repair bill after they clobber one. Or when a contractor hydroseeds a steep slope with a special grass mix and deer tear it up that night. or when bucks use someones expensive trees in their yards for buck rubs. deer can cost the average non hunter a lot of money in damage during the coarse of the year.
I can honestly say that of the people I know they have lost more $$$ on pests like termites, grubs and squirrels than on deer and they dont loose any sleep over termites,grubs and squirrels and definately do not waste any time thinking about them. Pike
02-25-2010, 03:37 AM
#20
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Carbon County Pa.
Posts: 601
Pat what % of PA. residents have an issue with deer because of landscaping etc.? What % of PA. residents have actually hit a deer with their vehicle? I know of one person that I can remember and that is my brother in law about 10 years ago.
I can honestly say that of the people I know they have lost more $$$ on pests like termites, grubs and squirrels than on deer and they dont loose any sleep over termites,grubs and squirrels and definately do not waste any time thinking about them. Pike
I can honestly say that of the people I know they have lost more $$$ on pests like termites, grubs and squirrels than on deer and they dont loose any sleep over termites,grubs and squirrels and definately do not waste any time thinking about them. Pike