Actually ,you are standing out in the rain and are all wet. The PGC manages the herd and individual hunters can do nothing to prevent the PGC from accomplishing their goal since the majority of hunters let the PGC decide how many deer should be harvested.

In your case I'm quite sure you are right, with the condescending attitude and the close mindedness you show daily I'm betting your neighbors would certainly treasure an invite from the local Jo-Ho's to dinner than have a chat with you.

"So I was wrong about nothing, I was correct in stating that a few a few vocal members of small % of malcontents will not ever have a say in how a democratic form of government sets directives to control how our society rules it populace."

Unless that small % of malcontents are the ones running the show. Then they do exactly as they please no matter how it effects the majority. No checks + no balances = bad business.

"And I am righter than rain about how like minded neighbors will have far more success in obtaining hunt able populations of deer within parameters that all can live with."

On a very limited and small scale, youd be right jim. Thats simply a pipedream when speaking of statewide or majority of the state. You simply arent gonna get "the weird guy" down the road who doesnt even talk to people + the guy who shoots every deer that walks + the guy that trophy only hunts + the farmer wanting less deer + the average joe + the guy with a poster on every tree, + the guy who owns 100 acres and allows anyone and everyone to hunt + old widow Smith who wont even answer the front door etc. etc. to sit down and manage the the deer herd statewide themselves nor should they be expected to. And as for hunters, the majority of the 900,000 arent landowners. And in most cases dont hunt "managed" land either. Only management most lands receive is that which is provided by pgc on gamelands and all private hunted land that isnt managed and as the case with stateforests, dcnr.

I have had a helluva lot more success talking to my neighbors than I've ever gotten from a politician.
As far as doe tags in 2F or 2G that number concerns me on the same level as the G.N.P. of Guatemala I have no desire to hunt either place.
A very limited small scale is all I can hope to be influential in when concerning deer numbers.

As a landowner, you have that option Jim. Id agree landowners should use their discretion and do whatever it takes if they are so inclined.

But that in no way minimizes the need for proper statewide management.

Some striking paralells seem to keep emerging here.....


Just as there are some who expect no one to make them a living, take care of their family, provide their healthcare and solve their lifes problems so are there deer hunters who make their own situation with their efforts and ingenuity. They blame no one but themselves for their failure and credit no one else with their successes.

And just as there are folks who expect the government to provide them with a living, healthcare and solve their lifes problems. They are even willing to give up some rights and quality of life to get that "help" And so are there deer hunters who believe the quality of their hunting is the job of the government. This group also is willing to give up some quality so long as the government provides for their right to a deer.

I think I prefer to make things happen rather than wait for them to happen


PS: Jim, if you DO ever get an urge to come over and hunt 2F, don't worry, we've got plenty of very good deer hunting over here.... of course, it's better for those of us who do our "homework" but I'll be happy to let ya "copy" a little

IMHO, you choose to only care about the quality of your own hunting and care nothing about the quality of hunting for your fellow hunters or for the future of deer hunting in PA. You apparently don't care how many hunters quit or if there will be enough hunters to control the herd in the future. Just like DougE and BWJ it is all about you and the rest of the hunters in the state can go watch the leaves fall.

Your complaints about your lack of success and your overall dissatifaction with your own deer hunting is well documented all over these threads. That is obviously your motivation. You've also stated that you shouldnt have to try a new place and that any extra effort on your part like scouting a bit is unneccessary. Your claim that some of us dont care about other hunters rings quite hollow.

You've said you want MSY management. Thats just plain greed. You have no consideration for the landowners or people who make their livng from that land. If you want to hunt land managed that way, buy some and have at it. But dont expect the PGC to manage the herd that way just to make a miniscule group of lazy hunters like you happy.

without getting into all that i gotta prove it so you all believe me crap, and i'm not going to get some lame paper stats that i can copy and past for everyones amazment, i will tell you plain and simple.
Yes without a doubt i'm seeing bigger bucks since AR was put into place here in NY state dmp 3j.

That simply is not true. I specifically stated landowners should have unlimited DMAP tags if they are suffering from deer damage, and they already had the option of killing deer for crop damage or getting reed tag permits.
Do you really want the statewide herd managed based on the desires of the non-hunting stakeholders? How many fatalities from deer collisions are acceptable? How much property damage from deer collisions is acceptable? If the herd is reduced to 5 DPSM on land open to hunting,there will still be a significant number of roadkills in areas that aren't open to hunting,so how much should we reduce the herd to avoid radkills?? If a truck farmer is suffering crop damage ,should the herd on adjoining properties be reduced until there is zero crop damage? If a landowner timbers 10 acres and the deer prevent regeneration,should the herd be reduced within a mile radius of those 10 acres to insure regeneration?