Sure seems quite around here
 

With all of those doe licenses left,it looks like some NR hunters will get lucky this year. Any of you guys getting another? I'm not sure if I will or if 1 will be enough. With the economy like it is I just might shoot my first doe in many, many years.

On a side note I saw 2 doe with 3 fawns in my clover last night, they seem to be reproducing quit well in 1B. :party0005:

I hunt primarily three areas. One the herd is doing well, thanks to controlled doe hunting efforts by the locals, hunters,and landowners. Actually probably the best numbers I've seen in almost ten years. I won't mention it in specifics because if I do then next year it will get double the allocation. I will most likely kill a doe there. The other two areas I frequent, I will purchase a tag, and decide whether that tag will save a doe (very likely) or take one for meat based on what I see after more scouting and observation this fall. As far as bucks I've only seen a few, one was definitely a "shooter." I'm sure there are a few more around, but I don't take scouting seriously at this time of year, I'm not going out of my way looking for them, so it's only what I see in passing. I also got my bear license...I seem to hunt bear about every other year, but I'm off all three days so I'm excited to do some scouting for bear and put in a real effort on them this year. Not sure why the board's been so quiet lately. I'd have thought with the heat and humidity more folks would be in front of the computer with the AC going and a cold beer. I'm really bored with the slow MB"s so I logged onto my wife's facebook page and changed her profile pic to Janet Reno! LOL That will either earn me some points for comedy or a night on the couch!:rolleye0011:

I dont hunt pa anymore , But my aged uncle sent for a permit in 5c and still has not gotten anything. They must be slow in berks county. shoot they had 113,000 permits . The state I hunt you just buy the permit at a store and it is good anywhere in the state. But each county has different limits. Some one ,some 2 ,some none and some counties only residents can shoot a doe. the area I own property we are allowed 2 doe. But I will probably only shoot a 6 pt buck or bigger. My doe herd is only around 50. The yotes take alot. Untill i can get the yote pop. down I wont shoot any doe. residents and their families or employees need not buy a license to hunt. But all deer shot must be taken to a check station which is anywhere hunting licenses are sold. You can buy a license, check a deer in and eat a pizza and drink a beer all at the same time. They keep the check in tags behind the bar infact.

God forbid the deer population would get below 300 dpsm.What an amazing attitude.Are yu trying to erroneously claim that WV is not trying to reduce their deer herd?

seeing i havent got my doe tag yet. I may just fence my property in and have my own hunting preserve. Then the pgc take a hike

I know nothing about WV game politics. What I do know is that none of my neighbors have the brown its down attitude. When they found out i was from Pa they got real upset. They were scared I was bringing the Pa.attitude to their community.None of my neighbors slaughter the doe. Infact my one neighbor shoots only 8 pt and bigger. He was raised in WV and has 600 acres and his family only bow hunts. Everyone I have met in the area was concerned I was going to do what they heard Pa was doing. They hate all Pa hunters because of what some are doing..Yes they shoot doe when necessary but the people I met ONLY want a big heard and support the deer with supplement feeding. I think there more feeders in WV then people. I can only speak for my area not the whole state. I will say no matter where I travel in the state I see deer all times of the day standing around everywhere. One thing that bothers me though is how tame some of the deer seem. Infact alot of the wild game animals dont seem near as scarey as other places. Even the yotes seem less wild.I woke up one morning stepped out of the house slammed the door and there was a yote sitting on my comfy tractor seat 20 yards from the porch. He didnt run untill I turned around to go get the gun.The farm I was raised up on in Pa.we see only three deer and there has been not one home built or any habitate removed. The problem is the public land that adjoins it and in the past hundreds of hunters each having multiple doe permits.I only found out this summer that the landowners that are around me in WV had a meeting when they found out where I was from and decided to watch me real close to see what kind of negative effects I had on the deer heard. No wonder I kept seeing orange vest at my borders just kind of watching me during the season. Could not figure what they were doing sitting there in deer season without a weapon. We have become very goods friends since that first year and they are just great country folks that love their deer.

The neighbors seems a little nosy to me. better you than me i guess

Cardeer you must be hunting a different part of WV than I have. First, the WV guys I met were very friendly with us "out of state guys" Where I hunted, the locals seldom bothered with tags or reporting anything and many of em talked about needing 6-8 deer a year to feed the family.

As for the original subject, it seems that some treasurers are processing the tags johnny on the spot while others arent doing so well. Saw on another site where one CT said they were understaffed and were only managing to do 400 or so a week.

It's gonna get real interesting here as it looks like some NR's might get tags even where the residents who sent in two weeks ago will only get their second or third choice.

The unsold tags mailings this week will make it even more complicated.

Better hope you pick the right CT when you mail em this weekend:wave:

Cardeer,if what you say is true and I doubt it is,you over winter more than 300 doe per square mile.That's just doe.With any type of recrutment,you'll have higher deer densites than any place on earth.Other than being totaly unnecessary,it's also extremely irresponsible.On top of that,how fun could it possibly be to hunt such a large and out of control herd of deer?

DOUG, I said this to myself and others.If I could walk and not be in a wheelchair taking a deer in my area would be to easy. I actually felt that way last year. Thee days and I seen 71 deer.I hunt alone and must wait for the exact conditions to shoot. I cant be chasing deer all over them steep hills. I must wait for the deer to be on one of the stone private drives , no more then 50 yards and use a cannon so it falls right down. And it still seemed to easy , I admit that.Last year in that snow and icestorm the buck I shot ran about 30 yards up a steep hill and dropped dead. I crawled on my belly up the hill and pushed the deer down to the road and then I rolled down. That was tough , but still finding a deer seems to easy. But I own a big chunk of property and short of Quiting hunting thats the way it will be. I had others from the state say they have a good deer pop but not as many as I see. I have never drove my 2 mile driveway without seeing a deer or went the 15 miles to town without seeing deer. Infact Several times while getting gas at a stop and go deer walked right across the lot in the middle of the day. I actually seen deer laying on peoples yard and one time on a persons porch right along a county asphalt road. Just drive I-79 between Morgantown and Charlestown in the rut around 3am to daylight down right dangerous.I have already counted over 100 deer just standing on the side of the road on that stretch. One night I stayed at a motel 8 off I-79 at a small strip mall and a herd of deer were walking down the sidewalk in front of krogers.I spent my lifes savings because there are so many animals in the area .When I want to see game and no people I just lock myself behind my gate and vegetate.I only ever took one person from Pa with me just to see my place. He being from deerless pa doubted me ,made fun of me also. His mouth just hung open the whole time and kept saying LOOK there and there ,oh my God deer everywhere. A real shock for him. Thats all he talks about since. I know of one deer that hangs around the peoples yard and will come right up to them when they are under their pic nic pavillion.NOT IN MY COUNTY, They put a orange collar on it so all the neighbors dont shoot it. Its like a pet and lives in the wild. Other then in the 60s in Pa I have never seen so many deer,thats why I spend my time there. I did spend over 3000 dollars this past year on deer pellets for the feeders and hundreds of dollars for fence around my garden. Gardens just dont survive there. Anyone who puts out a garden has fence around it. I am sure some areas are not as populated as mine, but it took me 3 years of traveling searching across the state for a area like that. You doudt me, I dont care, you dont have that many deer in your area, sorry, but stop shooting so many. I enjoy living in a zoo. I might not even hunt this year,who knows ,I admit I am becoming a softy. Its not that important to me anymore to kill something. I just enjoy my zoo. I really dont understand how anyone can drive thru that state without seeing deer anytime. I stayed at that Stonewall jackson state park one night. And they do allow hunting there. Holy schmolly deer everwhere. The golfers had to chase the deer off the greens to put.

Deer densities like that are irresponsible and unnessesary.Undoubtedly,that wil come to bite you in the rear someday.We had way to many deer for way too long in Pa.As a result,we have some of the most hoprrible habitat around and it will take years to fix.It not only effects deer.It effects other wildlife and yes,it effects the thousands of jobs and millions of dollars the timber industry.

There is absolutely no reason that a person has to see 70 plus deer in a couple days time period.It's flat out stupid and any professional wildlife manager woud agree.

I live in an area that encompasses about 14 square miles.No hunting had been allowed since the 1960's,although a number were still killed by tresspassers every year.Something had to be done because the deer literally ate everything that was growing.It was an ecological disaster.We did poluation surveys with FORESTERS AND BIOLOGISTS FROM PSU,DCNR and the US forest service.Initially we came in with an overwinter deer density of about 69 dpsm.That deer populations ate every bit of preferred regeneration.We set up 6 miles of browse imact plots and did surveys every year of what was growing and what was being eaten.In five years,we have yet to find one preferred sapling that hasn't been severly browsed.That's also despite the fact that logging is taking place on several thousand acres.Of the regeneration that's been present,75% of it has been comprised of beech.Beech is a non-prefered indicator species.That means deer won't touch it until they have no other choice.Guess what?59% of the beech is severaly to moderately browsed.Yes,the deer are in poor shape,especially during periods of heavy snow.We experienced a fair amount of winter kill during the winters of 2003 and 2004 and even some this past year.I have pictures top prove it.

Wanting.expecting and demanding too many deer is one of the greatest mistakes if this past century.I can't imagine why people need such high deer densities.I live in the wmu that has the absolute lowest deer densities in the entire state.Yet,I have no problems finding and killing multiple deer on public land each year.

Your posts of excessive deer sighting don't make me envy you.I actually feel bad for you,the deer,your neighbors and most importantly,the habitat there.

"We had way to many deer for way too long in Pa."

Gross generalization. We had way too many in a few areas.

"As a result,we have some of the most hoprrible habitat around"

Limited to some areas.

"and it will take years to fix."

Especially when considering by "FIX" audubon and pgc mean to conditions that never existed previously and are completely unnatural with ridiculous levels of biodiversity. (see aududon Pa website for details).

"There is absolutely no reason that a person has to see 70 plus deer in a couple days time period.It's flat out stupid and any professional wildlife manager woud agree."

I agree its unnecessary. But just as unnecessary to have the current unwarranted statewide wholesale slaughter

"Wanting.expecting and demanding too many deer is one of the greatest mistakes if this past century."

And econuts expecting and demanding too few is firmly all by itself at #1.

"I can't imagine why people need such high deer densities."

They apparently dont. Otherwise MOST would have quit by now. But its undeniable that rock bottom densities have dealt a heavy blow to satisfaction level of the states hunters. Many of us cant imagine why we need rock bottom numbers and ridiculous biodiversity when its simply a "values" issue and one that not very many people currently "value" at all. There is a happy medium here. But thanks to pgcs new age obtuse thinking and ecoflake make-up under the iron grip of dcnr and the governor, "happy medium" isnt an option currently.

But to compare 300 dpsm in some pocket of WV or whatever else the case may be....To our "needing" to have rock bottom numbers is more than a little off base Doug.

LOL:happy0001::happy0157:

Who has rockbottom numbers?I killed multiple deer on public land this year in the wmu that has the lowest dd in the entire state.In fact,I hunted three days during rifle season,all on state forest land and I could have killed a legal buck each day.You're complaining about rock bottom numbers in a WMU that harvested something like 14 dpsm.lol

Doug pa has rock bottom deer numbers. You can keep up the attempts at humor or pull your head out of your backside and see the facts for what they are. Compared to normal states nationwide, our densities are pizz poor. And that includes the best areas of this state where the densities are below 25 owdpsm and declining.

Since the PGC has taken tons of criticism for "not knowing" what our deer densities are, how did you come to those numbers? Maybe you should share your wisdom with our deer biologists.
I'm sure they'd welcome your expertise.

Btb, you are speaking of a position that is not my own. I never once critisized pgc for "not knowing how many deer we have". They do estimate the densities as best they can Id imagine. They also posted those densities on annual report. They also thereafter posted herd density change chart since then, on the last annual report.

The overwinter densities current range from "10 or less dpsm" to less than 25 dpsm. Those numbers are extremely lackluster overall, and if they are slightly "bloated" as some suggest, then its even worse.

I dont know about my "expertise" but I most certainly can read annual reports and i can do very basic 4th grade math.

well ok,,,i'll share a few #'s that i observed with all you deer biologists,,, from the area of 4d this past weekend,,,hell,,,i'll even give ya a town name of Loganton,,,spotlighted my way in on friday night,,,from mifflinburg to loganton on rt 192,,,saw 1 deer,,,,,saturday night seen the biggest doe i've ever seen ,,,that was that,,,in two hours of lookin,,,sunday night i didnt even turn the light on,,,too depressed,,,monday mornin,,,left to come back to va at prime time hopin to catch em headin back to the woods,,,nothin,,,not a f'n deer,,,but hey,,,,keep your heads and hopes hi,,,these deer pros on here will all tell ya that im lookin in the wrong areas,,,deer moved back into the forest to eat at night and said to hell with all the fresh veggies in the amish gardens,,,and the clover fields lack protien this time of year. Todays thursday and im still beside myself,,,i cant personally believe what Pa. as a hunting Mecca has become!

The way I see it Rem, PGC isnt saying we have alot of deer. They are saying we have few. I dont see much to disagree with that when they say units 2G, 5A, and 5D had 10 or less dpsm on the 2006 annual report, nor do I doubt it when they give the data that shows the very best wmus in the state have on average less than 25 owdpsm. Those are some of the lowest deer densities you'll find as "top" deer density goals in the nation. And those lower wmus with lower densities pretty much speak for themselves. lol

My problem isnt with pgcs density guestimate. The problem is with what deer densities they deem as necessary... and their goals, which consist currently of extreme unnatural levels of biodiversity. What they call "stabilization" is also a farce. When in actuallity it is "slower but continued reduction".

Cornelius08:
I agree totally,,,,what boggles the mind here is guys like BTB and DougE that are right "up the donkeys A$$ head 1st and cant see the horse for the farm"! These guys that can state #'s in every sentence trying to get their points across ,,that its a sunny day,, when i can walk out the door and see it's rainin like a mother F'r. I expect this kind of BS from a govt entity like the PGC but this kind of rhetoric coming from guys like us in the field wipes me out! And whats more!.,,,,these guys will post pics on this site showing what they feel is a good buck,,"due to the current laws in Pa"that they have killed in the past couple years and i have yet to be impressed,,,not that i have killed bigger mind you,,,,but what they are posting is not what a true wildlife mgmt minded hunter would be bragging about. ??????????????????????

LMAO!
Guys like DougE and me and BWJ AND blkpowder and bowtruck and Livbucks and pats and thousands of others are finding the deer with no problem so it stands to reason that we are NOT the ones with our heads up the donkeys ass. Maybe if you pulled your head out of there and spent the time really hunting and scouting, you'd see that. Maybe you'd actually see some deer LOL.

I actually was a pretty strong critic of the PGC BEFORE they started managing more responsibly. They still have a long way to go but they're finally headed in the right direction.

well said btb

One thing for sure my head isnt the one in the donkeys backside.

"LMAO!
Guys like DougE and me and BWJ AND blkpowder and bowtruck and Livbucks and pats and thousands of others are finding the deer with no problem so it stands to reason that we are NOT the ones with our heads up the donkeys ass."

I dont think simply "finding deer" is the issue. I "find deer" yet I still do not support the failed deer management plan. Nor do others I know, successful hunters included. Just because we can still find success in spite of the nonsense, doesnt mean we should support the nonsense.

"I actually was a pretty strong critic of the PGC BEFORE they started managing more responsibly. They still have a long way to go but they're finally headed in the right direction."

I agree on both counts. From what Ive learned about deer management through the years, and looking back, I dont think previously the best management in the world was taking place but then, neither is it currently. They countered some of the problems, but created more than they fixed in the process. Previously some areas had more deer than should have been. To fix that problem, they reduced areas that didnt need it. They reduced other areas that needed some, but got far more than necessary extremes, and very few actually got exactly what they needed in the process. We also had a pretty poor age structure previously. Ar was implemented and I support it. It has had limited effect however, due to the extreme hr in many areas. Due to the intense hunting pressure in Pa, it hasnt improved much average age-wise by simply allowing 1.5 yr olds to become 2.5 before 80-90% of them are shot anyways, and around half the yearlings are still getting whacked as well.


We had poor quality overall, good deer numbers with some areas too high.

Now we have still poor but slightly better on average quality (but very much hindered by excessive hr) and fair to poor deer numbers with most areas far lower than need be, and the reduction continues.

A very good solution exists. Somewhere between the two extremes lies where we should be. Though with current agendas in place, that "somewhere in between" might as well not even exist.

As usual you are flat out wrong. The same hunters that harvested 517,529 deer in 2002 can now only harvest 335k deer on a sustainable basis and the only reason is that the harvests have been exceeding recruitment since 2000. those harvests have resulted in a 5% decrease in breeding rates, decreased productivity and lower sustainable harvests.

Only a fool would support a plan that reduced recruitment ,herd health and produced a lower sustainable harvests. are you one of those fools?

Rem, I know what you mean about the bucks being unimpressive despite the pr campaign that pgc puts on.

The hyped up measuring sessions were supposed to yield incredible results. We hadnt had a measuring session in 6 long years they said. We'll have tons of trophies showing up they said. Then you'll see how the plan is really working they said...

Well guess what. The sessions were a big flop and let-down. The top bucks for most regions were pretty lackluster and wouldnt even beget a raised eyebrow in states like Ohio or any other good buck state.

Well, I dont think i need to tell you that "they" said a helluva lot more and hyped up the sessions alot more before the results were had than they did afterwards. LOL

Just read an article in a magazine the other day stating ""Is this Pa's biggest buck of 2008?" The buck was a low 150's think around 153 or so if I remember correctly. Great buck. But Best bow buck in the entire state last year?:eek2: What a joke lmao.

I got to agree with you Cornelius. I can't remember the last time I didn't shoot a deer but that doesn't mean there are lots to be had or that I agree with this current fiasco. Anymore, I feel kind of guilty after I shoot a deer because I don't think our herd should be reduced in the areas that I hunt. I feel like I am part of the problem. Even though I have passed on shooting does in the past, what is the point in hunting if I am not going to attempt to kill a deer. If all I want to do is observe nature, I can do that without buying a license and I can do that all year.

I for one am delighted not to be included in that list of clowns and misfits but, you better check to see if you have a hat that fits that big head of yours.

Naw , you belong over in the entitlement crowd. The ones who think the PGC owes them a deer.

Well you can be delighted for a long time because you'll never be part of that group:barmy::barmy::barmy::barmy:

BTW, got plenty of hats that fit just fine. Got lots of "hat racks" for em too LOL!

Just found one of the "hat racks" I'll be lookig for this season!

I got his picture on August 9th 2008. So he was not done growing. Plus,I've seen bigger! Southwest Pa. has got some big boys! :s1:

Blkpowder:
Thats a beautiful buck for sure,,,hope ya get a chance at a nice 1 like that this season! I guess i just have to be done debating this issue,,,Im really discouraged with the lack of deer sightings i saw last weekend,,,and i knew that by posting it on here, it would become an issue of i "dont know how to find deer".I've come to realize that discussing herd #'s with some of these guys is like the war on terrorism,,"you cant beat a guy that has no value for life"

Like Corny said. Hunters from Ohio and other big deer states would not raise an eyebrow at that deer. Just another product of Pa.s failed deer program.

And I'am not so sure of how many hunters would scoff at a 150 whitetail hunting under fair chase conditions.

Amazing how a guy who is upset that he has to wait for 3 or 4 points on a side scoffs at a 150 class buck isn't it?

That's a mighty fine buck regardless of where it is. Anyone that says any different, doesn't even deserve a "seat" at the discussion table.

There are now several bucks close to that feller, up in the area of 3A where I hunt and all are very happy to be seeing them now. Those who have hunted there for about 50 years like I have, are nearly estatic over the current opportunities.

I'd be a pretty happy old buzzard to drop one 'em come fall, too. Might even settle for one half that nice? I'll decide if and when the chance arises.

:s1:

Hey guys. What am I doing wrong when I attach a photo?
They appear as a thumbnail and not a full size pic.
Not on to this new system yet....Help!