Cornelius08:
I agree totally,,,,what boggles the mind here is guys like BTB and DougE that are right "up the donkeys A$$ head 1st and cant see the horse for the farm"! These guys that can state #'s in every sentence trying to get their points across ,,that its a sunny day,, when i can walk out the door and see it's rainin like a mother F'r. I expect this kind of BS from a govt entity like the PGC but this kind of rhetoric coming from guys like us in the field wipes me out! And whats more!.,,,,these guys will post pics on this site showing what they feel is a good buck,,"due to the current laws in Pa"that they have killed in the past couple years and i have yet to be impressed,,,not that i have killed bigger mind you,,,,but what they are posting is not what a true wildlife mgmt minded hunter would be bragging about. ??????????????????????

LMAO!
Guys like DougE and me and BWJ AND blkpowder and bowtruck and Livbucks and pats and thousands of others are finding the deer with no problem so it stands to reason that we are NOT the ones with our heads up the donkeys ass. Maybe if you pulled your head out of there and spent the time really hunting and scouting, you'd see that. Maybe you'd actually see some deer LOL.

I actually was a pretty strong critic of the PGC BEFORE they started managing more responsibly. They still have a long way to go but they're finally headed in the right direction.

well said btb

One thing for sure my head isnt the one in the donkeys backside.

"LMAO!
Guys like DougE and me and BWJ AND blkpowder and bowtruck and Livbucks and pats and thousands of others are finding the deer with no problem so it stands to reason that we are NOT the ones with our heads up the donkeys ass."

I dont think simply "finding deer" is the issue. I "find deer" yet I still do not support the failed deer management plan. Nor do others I know, successful hunters included. Just because we can still find success in spite of the nonsense, doesnt mean we should support the nonsense.

"I actually was a pretty strong critic of the PGC BEFORE they started managing more responsibly. They still have a long way to go but they're finally headed in the right direction."

I agree on both counts. From what Ive learned about deer management through the years, and looking back, I dont think previously the best management in the world was taking place but then, neither is it currently. They countered some of the problems, but created more than they fixed in the process. Previously some areas had more deer than should have been. To fix that problem, they reduced areas that didnt need it. They reduced other areas that needed some, but got far more than necessary extremes, and very few actually got exactly what they needed in the process. We also had a pretty poor age structure previously. Ar was implemented and I support it. It has had limited effect however, due to the extreme hr in many areas. Due to the intense hunting pressure in Pa, it hasnt improved much average age-wise by simply allowing 1.5 yr olds to become 2.5 before 80-90% of them are shot anyways, and around half the yearlings are still getting whacked as well.


We had poor quality overall, good deer numbers with some areas too high.

Now we have still poor but slightly better on average quality (but very much hindered by excessive hr) and fair to poor deer numbers with most areas far lower than need be, and the reduction continues.

A very good solution exists. Somewhere between the two extremes lies where we should be. Though with current agendas in place, that "somewhere in between" might as well not even exist.

As usual you are flat out wrong. The same hunters that harvested 517,529 deer in 2002 can now only harvest 335k deer on a sustainable basis and the only reason is that the harvests have been exceeding recruitment since 2000. those harvests have resulted in a 5% decrease in breeding rates, decreased productivity and lower sustainable harvests.

Only a fool would support a plan that reduced recruitment ,herd health and produced a lower sustainable harvests. are you one of those fools?

Rem, I know what you mean about the bucks being unimpressive despite the pr campaign that pgc puts on.

The hyped up measuring sessions were supposed to yield incredible results. We hadnt had a measuring session in 6 long years they said. We'll have tons of trophies showing up they said. Then you'll see how the plan is really working they said...

Well guess what. The sessions were a big flop and let-down. The top bucks for most regions were pretty lackluster and wouldnt even beget a raised eyebrow in states like Ohio or any other good buck state.

Well, I dont think i need to tell you that "they" said a helluva lot more and hyped up the sessions alot more before the results were had than they did afterwards. LOL

Just read an article in a magazine the other day stating ""Is this Pa's biggest buck of 2008?" The buck was a low 150's think around 153 or so if I remember correctly. Great buck. But Best bow buck in the entire state last year? What a joke lmao.

I got to agree with you Cornelius. I can't remember the last time I didn't shoot a deer but that doesn't mean there are lots to be had or that I agree with this current fiasco. Anymore, I feel kind of guilty after I shoot a deer because I don't think our herd should be reduced in the areas that I hunt. I feel like I am part of the problem. Even though I have passed on shooting does in the past, what is the point in hunting if I am not going to attempt to kill a deer. If all I want to do is observe nature, I can do that without buying a license and I can do that all year.

I for one am delighted not to be included in that list of clowns and misfits but, you better check to see if you have a hat that fits that big head of yours.

Naw , you belong over in the entitlement crowd. The ones who think the PGC owes them a deer.

Well you can be delighted for a long time because you'll never be part of that group

BTW, got plenty of hats that fit just fine. Got lots of "hat racks" for em too LOL!

Just found one of the "hat racks" I'll be lookig for this season!