"LMAO!
Guys like DougE and me and BWJ AND blkpowder and bowtruck and Livbucks and pats and thousands of others are finding the deer with no problem so it stands to reason that we are NOT the ones with our heads up the donkeys ass."

I dont think simply "finding deer" is the issue. I "find deer" yet I still do not support the failed deer management plan. Nor do others I know, successful hunters included. Just because we can still find success in spite of the nonsense, doesnt mean we should support the nonsense.

"I actually was a pretty strong critic of the PGC BEFORE they started managing more responsibly. They still have a long way to go but they're finally headed in the right direction."

I agree on both counts. From what Ive learned about deer management through the years, and looking back, I dont think previously the best management in the world was taking place but then, neither is it currently. They countered some of the problems, but created more than they fixed in the process. Previously some areas had more deer than should have been. To fix that problem, they reduced areas that didnt need it. They reduced other areas that needed some, but got far more than necessary extremes, and very few actually got exactly what they needed in the process. We also had a pretty poor age structure previously. Ar was implemented and I support it. It has had limited effect however, due to the extreme hr in many areas. Due to the intense hunting pressure in Pa, it hasnt improved much average age-wise by simply allowing 1.5 yr olds to become 2.5 before 80-90% of them are shot anyways, and around half the yearlings are still getting whacked as well.


We had poor quality overall, good deer numbers with some areas too high.

Now we have still poor but slightly better on average quality (but very much hindered by excessive hr) and fair to poor deer numbers with most areas far lower than need be, and the reduction continues.

A very good solution exists. Somewhere between the two extremes lies where we should be. Though with current agendas in place, that "somewhere in between" might as well not even exist.