Pa license increase
04-05-2009, 05:59 PM
#22
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 584
RE: Pa license increase
ORIGINAL: Cornelius08
LMAO!! As usual leave it to RSB to misrepresent the facts!
I see no "maybe" vote, and there sure as heck is no "maybe" on my poll. You may consider MAYBE as the option on THIS poll. But I didnt want "indecision" on mine by having confusing nonsensical wording as to where one stands, you either voted yes, no, or conditionally on mine..
Here is how it stands combinedpolls....Yes-18 votes (including a few pgcemployee votes) No-23 Maybe,maybenot--6.
LMAO!! As usual leave it to RSB to misrepresent the facts!
I see no "maybe" vote, and there sure as heck is no "maybe" on my poll. You may consider MAYBE as the option on THIS poll. But I didnt want "indecision" on mine by having confusing nonsensical wording as to where one stands, you either voted yes, no, or conditionally on mine..
Here is how it stands combinedpolls....Yes-18 votes (including a few pgcemployee votes) No-23 Maybe,maybenot--6.
Now there is spinning of the facts at its finest.
Even Bluebird has never been that deceptive and illogical with numbers. Congratulations you have stuck a new level of both deceit and illogical nonsense.
Presently 61% of the people taking the poll on this topic support a license increase and only 38% are apposed to one.
Fortunately most readers aren't so foolish as to accept you misrepresentations of the facts even your own poll is showing, let alone thepoll in this topic.
Face it, you are wrong about what the majortiy of the hunters have to say and if they, in general, support the Game Commission misison and objectives or not.
R.S. Bodenhorn
04-05-2009, 06:10 PM
#23
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
RE: Pa license increase
for this poll 38% against. 33% for. Rest...maybe?And sorry, but maybe doesnt automatically slide into the "yes" column! LMAO.... For clarification, see the other poll which is more clearly worded, has more votes, and is clearly not in support of fee increase, especially with no reasonable changes made by pgc.
Combined, the polls are exactly as I stated above. Anyone who can add the other poll to this one, can see, as usual you are full of beans.
Not sure why we would "combine" the polls when one has many more votes, was here longer, is clearer worded, and both polls had many of the same voters.
Combined, the polls are exactly as I stated above. Anyone who can add the other poll to this one, can see, as usual you are full of beans.
Not sure why we would "combine" the polls when one has many more votes, was here longer, is clearer worded, and both polls had many of the same voters.
04-05-2009, 06:31 PM
#24
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Pa license increase
Just to clarify my earlier statement about this poll being less than fair, the only choice worded unfairly is the last one. Absolutes are not generally fair because most find an absoluteon either side objectionable.
Corny's poll had only an absolute on the "for an increase" side so I worded the "against an increase" choice the same way.
Either poll would be more fair if both of the middle choices had been included.
Of course,Corny and the other naysayers and all their aliases will disagree but that should come as no surprise. Corny's poll was intended to be about as fair as one put up by Al Franken.
Corny's poll had only an absolute on the "for an increase" side so I worded the "against an increase" choice the same way.
Either poll would be more fair if both of the middle choices had been included.
Of course,Corny and the other naysayers and all their aliases will disagree but that should come as no surprise. Corny's poll was intended to be about as fair as one put up by Al Franken.
04-05-2009, 06:45 PM
#25
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
RE: Pa license increase
"Corny's poll had only an absolute on the "for an increase" side so I worded the "against an increase" choice the same way. "
Your nitpicking at nothing. Its the glass half empty or half full. I said "do not support unless changes are made". I could have worded as I support as long as changes are made... Would have been the same thing though. They DONT support it because those changes havent been made. When and if they are, thats subject to change.
"Either poll would be more fair if both of the middle choices had been included. "
I disagree. Your "middle choice" was too vague. Plain and simple. You either want to find out what people want or you dont. And in that case, we have no idea!
"Corny's poll was intended to be about as fair as one put up by Al Franken."
For an unbiased poll on the subject there is absolutely no way it could have been worded better. It addresses our situation as it is. Do you support pgc fee increase unconditional, do you not support it until reasonable changes first, or do you not support it at all. No bs. No nonsense. No deceptive wording. The reason the fee is being withheld is accounted for in my poll also. You just dont like the results. Honestly I dont either. I dont think its even close to representing reality, Id say its a huge landslide against it.
Your nitpicking at nothing. Its the glass half empty or half full. I said "do not support unless changes are made". I could have worded as I support as long as changes are made... Would have been the same thing though. They DONT support it because those changes havent been made. When and if they are, thats subject to change.
"Either poll would be more fair if both of the middle choices had been included. "
I disagree. Your "middle choice" was too vague. Plain and simple. You either want to find out what people want or you dont. And in that case, we have no idea!
"Corny's poll was intended to be about as fair as one put up by Al Franken."
For an unbiased poll on the subject there is absolutely no way it could have been worded better. It addresses our situation as it is. Do you support pgc fee increase unconditional, do you not support it until reasonable changes first, or do you not support it at all. No bs. No nonsense. No deceptive wording. The reason the fee is being withheld is accounted for in my poll also. You just dont like the results. Honestly I dont either. I dont think its even close to representing reality, Id say its a huge landslide against it.
04-05-2009, 07:02 PM
#26
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Pa license increase
You are quite simply delusional.
Each poll, as of the moment this is written, is in avirtual dead heat with the other. Each favors the intended result of the composer of the poll.
Sorry you don't like the results but the reality is that neither proves much of anything.
If it proves anything, it proves that even on the only forum that has become the hideout for all the anti PGC rejects that have been banned everywhere else, you cant muster the "majority" you claim is out there.
Each poll, as of the moment this is written, is in avirtual dead heat with the other. Each favors the intended result of the composer of the poll.
Sorry you don't like the results but the reality is that neither proves much of anything.
If it proves anything, it proves that even on the only forum that has become the hideout for all the anti PGC rejects that have been banned everywhere else, you cant muster the "majority" you claim is out there.
04-06-2009, 06:31 AM
#27
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,978
RE: Pa license increase
Waaa. WAAA.
Someone sore about losing....again? I would say being wrong again, but I dont think you even believe half of what you say....Its all about putting on a show to acouple of you guys. Damage control.
Ive already posted the poll that showed 72% against...Even with an additional turkey stamp thrown in LMAO! Ive shown SEVERAL with extremely low pgc support from SEVERAL sites. And my poll on here shows majority against. Not as wide a margin in the real world due to all the pgc personell, dcnr guys and evironmental groups that post on some of these boards who make up a MUCH higher percentage of the population HERE than they do amongst the 900,000 hunters in our ranks.
The polls do not support pgc by any stretch of the imagination when I can post several from several different sites about pgc approval ratings. Also the majority of them are against fee increase.
Someone sore about losing....again? I would say being wrong again, but I dont think you even believe half of what you say....Its all about putting on a show to acouple of you guys. Damage control.
Ive already posted the poll that showed 72% against...Even with an additional turkey stamp thrown in LMAO! Ive shown SEVERAL with extremely low pgc support from SEVERAL sites. And my poll on here shows majority against. Not as wide a margin in the real world due to all the pgc personell, dcnr guys and evironmental groups that post on some of these boards who make up a MUCH higher percentage of the population HERE than they do amongst the 900,000 hunters in our ranks.
The polls do not support pgc by any stretch of the imagination when I can post several from several different sites about pgc approval ratings. Also the majority of them are against fee increase.
04-06-2009, 06:39 AM
#28
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Pa license increase
All thats been proven here and with the one about an additional turkeytag with an increase is that the wording of any poll can direct the outcome. In that same poll with the turkey tag question, a straightforward question about an increase was favored by a two to one margin.
The other thing proven here is that youseem to beincapable of unbiased, objective thought and that you have your own hard boiled preconceived notions thatshort circuit any chance for intelligent debate .
The other thing proven here is that youseem to beincapable of unbiased, objective thought and that you have your own hard boiled preconceived notions thatshort circuit any chance for intelligent debate .
04-06-2009, 06:44 AM
#29
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 584
RE: Pa license increase
ORIGINAL: Cornelius08
Waaa. WAAA.
Someone sore about losing....again? I would say being wrong again, but I dont think you even believe half of what you say....Its all about putting on a show to acouple of you guys. Damage control.
Ive already posted the poll that showed 72% against...Even with an additional turkey stamp thrown in LMAO! Ive shown SEVERAL with extremely low pgc support from SEVERAL sites. And my poll on here shows majority against. Not as wide a margin in the real world due to all the pgc personell, dcnr guys and evironmental groups that post on some of these boards who make up a MUCH higher percentage of the population HERE than they do amongst the 900,000 hunters in our ranks.
The polls do not support pgc by any stretch of the imagination when I can post several from several different sites about pgc approval ratings. Also the majority of them are against fee increase.
Waaa. WAAA.
Someone sore about losing....again? I would say being wrong again, but I dont think you even believe half of what you say....Its all about putting on a show to acouple of you guys. Damage control.
Ive already posted the poll that showed 72% against...Even with an additional turkey stamp thrown in LMAO! Ive shown SEVERAL with extremely low pgc support from SEVERAL sites. And my poll on here shows majority against. Not as wide a margin in the real world due to all the pgc personell, dcnr guys and evironmental groups that post on some of these boards who make up a MUCH higher percentage of the population HERE than they do amongst the 900,000 hunters in our ranks.
The polls do not support pgc by any stretch of the imagination when I can post several from several different sites about pgc approval ratings. Also the majority of them are against fee increase.
I must have missed the link to the poll you are talking about that indicted a lack of support for a license increase. Please post the link again if you will.
There is another poll on another web site and when I checked it earlier this morning it had only one unbiased question; “Should the Game Commission be granted a license increase?” The only possible answer was either “yes” or “no.”
The results of that poll at that time of being checked this morning showed 76% voted for a license increase while only 24% said no. I suspect that is probably closer to the real sentiments of the average of hunters. The most informed, about the big picture of wildlife management, generally do support a license increase while the least informed and self centered hunters typically don’t.
R.S. Bodenhorn
04-06-2009, 07:07 AM
#30
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Pa license increase
Heres the link to the entire poll:
http://www.outdoortimes.com/pollmentor/pollmentorhist.asp
and a couple of the questions with their responses
Would you be in favor of a hunting license increase if it would include a second spring turkey tag with the license instead of buying the "special second spring gobbler tag"? ( Total votes:157 )
Yes
(21.7 %)
34 votes
No
(72.0 %)
113 votes
Doesn't matter
(6.4 %)
10 votes
[align=center]Total votes: 157 [/align]
Now a second related question to that question.........
[align=center]
[/align][align=center][/align][align=center][/align][align=center]Do you plan to buy the new $21 special wild turkey license to bag a second spring gobbler next year? ( Total votes:75 )[/align][align=center][/align][align=center][/align]
Yes
(6.7 %)
5 votes
No
(85.3 %)
64 votes
Undecided
(8.0 %)
6 votes
[align=center]Total votes: 75
[/align]
The question that corny claims shows a 72% majority against an increase clearly is worded in a way that indicates that a general increase would be intended primarily to allow that 6.7% who want to hunt a second turkey could do so without paying an extra fee
Now here's the question where the license increase is an worded as an uncluttered unbiased yes or no question .......
Currently introduced legislation would increase the cost of your General Hunting License 3 times in the next 7 years to help fund the PGC budget. Year 1 it would go up $5 and then $5 in year 4 and another $5 in year 7. Would you support these increases? ( Total votes:59 )
NO
(35.6 %)
21 votes
YES
(64.4 %)
38 votes
[align=center]Total votes: 59 [/align]
Notable also is that this poll is one where the partcipant can answer one, two or all of the questions and that questions get added over time. The last one shown here was far down the list because it was added long after the first two. Corny also makes an issue of the number of participants in each. If he could view a subject objectively, he would recognize that a question that has been available for a shorter time would naturally have fewer responses.
Most importantly, this demonstrates once again that the wording poll questions can often have a very strong influence on the outcome. The questioner can easily skew the results. Any fair minded personshould be able to see that.
http://www.outdoortimes.com/pollmentor/pollmentorhist.asp
and a couple of the questions with their responses
Would you be in favor of a hunting license increase if it would include a second spring turkey tag with the license instead of buying the "special second spring gobbler tag"? ( Total votes:157 )
Yes
(21.7 %)34 votes
No
(72.0 %)113 votes
Doesn't matter
(6.4 %)10 votes
[align=center]Total votes: 157 [/align]
Now a second related question to that question.........
[align=center]
[/align][align=center][/align][align=center][/align][align=center]Do you plan to buy the new $21 special wild turkey license to bag a second spring gobbler next year? ( Total votes:75 )[/align][align=center][/align][align=center][/align]
Yes
(6.7 %)5 votes
No
(85.3 %)64 votes
Undecided
(8.0 %)6 votes
[align=center]Total votes: 75
[/align]
The question that corny claims shows a 72% majority against an increase clearly is worded in a way that indicates that a general increase would be intended primarily to allow that 6.7% who want to hunt a second turkey could do so without paying an extra fee
Now here's the question where the license increase is an worded as an uncluttered unbiased yes or no question .......
Currently introduced legislation would increase the cost of your General Hunting License 3 times in the next 7 years to help fund the PGC budget. Year 1 it would go up $5 and then $5 in year 4 and another $5 in year 7. Would you support these increases? ( Total votes:59 )
NO
(35.6 %)21 votes
YES
(64.4 %)38 votes
[align=center]Total votes: 59 [/align]
Notable also is that this poll is one where the partcipant can answer one, two or all of the questions and that questions get added over time. The last one shown here was far down the list because it was added long after the first two. Corny also makes an issue of the number of participants in each. If he could view a subject objectively, he would recognize that a question that has been available for a shorter time would naturally have fewer responses.
Most importantly, this demonstrates once again that the wording poll questions can often have a very strong influence on the outcome. The questioner can easily skew the results. Any fair minded personshould be able to see that.