Some Good news In PA
03-12-2009, 08:37 AM
#21
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
RE: Some Good news In PA
The timber company that owns the property is taking everything larger than 14 inches at the STUMP.Within three years,there won't be a mast producing tree left.We'll end up with a beech forest nightmare.It's unfortunate but there's really nothing that can be done in these situations.Still adding more deer to otherwise crappy habitat isn't the answer either.
The habitat may be crappy in your opinion ,but it will still support 40 DPSM according to the experts. So , if the damage was the result of poor forest management, why not allow more deer since the damage has already been done?
Basically you just admitted we reduced the herd statewide so that DCNR and the forestry industry would find it easier to grow commercial timber, while most of our forests won't benefit from the reduction in the herd, because they aren't managed properly.
03-12-2009, 08:38 AM
#22
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 297
RE: Some Good news In PA
ORIGINAL: bawanajim
If more hunters spent their money on buying land instead of computers the world would be a much better place.
If more hunters spent their money on buying land instead of computers the world would be a much better place.
03-12-2009, 09:11 AM
#23
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 8,167
RE: Some Good news In PA
ORIGINAL: Maverick 1
You obviously are using a computer to post this non-sense. I suggest you stop wasting your time on this web site, sell your computer (or donate to the needy), and get out start making difference on your own. Go plant some more of those acorns and act like Johnny Appleseed.
ORIGINAL: bawanajim
If more hunters spent their money on buying land instead of computers the world would be a much better place.
If more hunters spent their money on buying land instead of computers the world would be a much better place.
Here are some pictures of my piece of PA.
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2741859
Nice huh.
03-12-2009, 10:02 AM
#26
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Some Good news In PA
ORIGINAL: bawanajim
I have a pretty wife too.
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter
Very Nice Jim!!
Very Nice Jim!!
But does yours let you go off to another state bowhunting for three weeks at a time?
Mine does
Oh and she's a helluva cook too!
03-12-2009, 10:20 AM
#27
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 8,167
RE: Some Good news In PA
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter
I did OK in that area too
But does yours let you go off to another state bowhunting for three weeks at a time?
Mine does
Oh and she's a helluva cook too!
ORIGINAL: bawanajim
I have a pretty wife too.
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter
Very Nice Jim!!
Very Nice Jim!!
But does yours let you go off to another state bowhunting for three weeks at a time?
Mine does
Oh and she's a helluva cook too!
It Was Fun!
03-12-2009, 10:23 AM
#28
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Some Good news In PA
ORIGINAL: bawanajim
Seventeen days in Alaska!
It Was Fun!
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter
I did OK in that area too
But does yours let you go off to another state bowhunting for three weeks at a time?
Mine does
Oh and she's a helluva cook too!
ORIGINAL: bawanajim
I have a pretty wife too.
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter
Very Nice Jim!!
Very Nice Jim!!
But does yours let you go off to another state bowhunting for three weeks at a time?
Mine does
Oh and she's a helluva cook too!
It Was Fun!
(good thing for your kids that the wife is pretty)[&:]
03-12-2009, 10:51 AM
#30
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
RE: Some Good news In PA
ORIGINAL: Screamin Steel
Doug, with the timbering practices going on at Treasure Lake, what changes do you foresee in your deer mgt goals there. Onbviously the CC of the habitat will be affected severely by eliminatingso manymast trees and pref browse. I guess sustaining huntable deer populations was never a goal there to begin with, but it was a welcome opportunity for the few that got to hunt there. With the habitat loss due to the timber practices, do you foresee the herd there reducing naturally, relocating seeking better browse, or continuing to grow and relying more on homeowners gardens and ornamental shrubs? I guess the real question is do you foresee the bowhunt continuing on the same scale, being as important for the deer mgt there?
ORIGINAL: DougE
BT,it's unnatural because man is suppressing the fire.I don't ever remember anyone saying that poorforestry haven't had had a negative impact on the habitat.the problem is,the state has control over a very small percentage of the timber.The timber that they mange,is managed very well.The problem lies with the greed of private landowners and those that buy the timber.Yesterday,Germain pm'd me about a largre lease near my house.I used to belong to this lease and the deer hunting was terrible.So terrible that I never even bothered to hunt it during deer season.A timber company used to own it and they did a good job managing it.It wasalways open to the public back then.Unfortunately,they sold it to an investment corporation,who in turn leased the land and started raping and high grading all the timber.It's now some of the worst habitat around and the deer numbers are very low,even though no doe hunting is allowed on the lease.The timber rights on the 9500 acres where I live now were sold 20 some years ago.Our property owner's association gets them back in 2013 but guess what's going on now?The timber company that owns the property is taking everything larger than 14 inches at the STUMP.Within three years,there won't be a mast producing tree left.We'll end up with a beech forest nightmare.It's unfortunate but there's really nothing that can be done in these situations.Still adding more deer to otherwise crappy habitat isn't the answer either.
Steel,red oak does well in fires because it's thick bark can sustain the tree through fires.Thoin barked species such as red maple,striped maple,birch and beech cannot.The fire knocks those species backs so they don't outcompete the oaks.It really has little to do with the composition of the soil after a fire,as far as the oaks are concerned.At one time,red maple was called swamp maple because it only grew in wet areas that were protected from fire.In the last 70 years or so,it has started to take over because we've been suppressing fires.
DCNR has done several controlled burns in Moshannon state forest over the past few years.I walk through them every year with the district forester to check things out.Fire can be a very beneficial tool but it's very risky,takes a lot of manpower,has a short window of opportunity and has to be done under the right conditions and those conditions can change by the minute.
BT,it's unnatural because man is suppressing the fire.I don't ever remember anyone saying that poorforestry haven't had had a negative impact on the habitat.the problem is,the state has control over a very small percentage of the timber.The timber that they mange,is managed very well.The problem lies with the greed of private landowners and those that buy the timber.Yesterday,Germain pm'd me about a largre lease near my house.I used to belong to this lease and the deer hunting was terrible.So terrible that I never even bothered to hunt it during deer season.A timber company used to own it and they did a good job managing it.It wasalways open to the public back then.Unfortunately,they sold it to an investment corporation,who in turn leased the land and started raping and high grading all the timber.It's now some of the worst habitat around and the deer numbers are very low,even though no doe hunting is allowed on the lease.The timber rights on the 9500 acres where I live now were sold 20 some years ago.Our property owner's association gets them back in 2013 but guess what's going on now?The timber company that owns the property is taking everything larger than 14 inches at the STUMP.Within three years,there won't be a mast producing tree left.We'll end up with a beech forest nightmare.It's unfortunate but there's really nothing that can be done in these situations.Still adding more deer to otherwise crappy habitat isn't the answer either.
Steel,red oak does well in fires because it's thick bark can sustain the tree through fires.Thoin barked species such as red maple,striped maple,birch and beech cannot.The fire knocks those species backs so they don't outcompete the oaks.It really has little to do with the composition of the soil after a fire,as far as the oaks are concerned.At one time,red maple was called swamp maple because it only grew in wet areas that were protected from fire.In the last 70 years or so,it has started to take over because we've been suppressing fires.
DCNR has done several controlled burns in Moshannon state forest over the past few years.I walk through them every year with the district forester to check things out.Fire can be a very beneficial tool but it's very risky,takes a lot of manpower,has a short window of opportunity and has to be done under the right conditions and those conditions can change by the minute.
We had close to 200 hunters last year so there's more than just a few that get to hunt.The hunter density in TL is higher than any place I've ever been.We send surveys out at the end of the season and too many hunters was the number one complaint.
What I see happening is thatthe herd will increase for the next several years until all the new growth turns into pole timber.At that point,the herd will drop like a lead baloon.
jim,planted acorns would do absolutely no good in this area what so ever.The deer density is way to high.We do annula browse impact surveys with over 6 miles of transect lines.75% of the property had no regeneration.Of the regeneration that was present,75% of it was beech whichwas moderately to severly browsed.Even in the recently timbered areas following good mast prouction,there was no oak regeneration and very little red maple regeneration.We fenced in small areas and the stump sprouts looked like chia pets.On the outside,not a single stump sprout can be found.The damage deer can do in habitat that's already stressed is unbelievable.By the way,the deer eventually knocked the fences down and wiped out that regeneration.
Poor forestry practices combined with too many deer is a disaster and that's what much of the northern tier was faced with.