Some Good news In PA
03-11-2009, 06:30 PM
#11
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 297
RE: Some Good news In PA
That is where I do believe our deer are being managed scientifically. The deer are being managed scienctifically towards political goals. As you have sugested bluebird, those political goals do not align with hunting but rather the business of forestry.
03-12-2009, 01:54 AM
#12
Typical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 659
RE: Some Good news In PA
Red Oak specifically is known to thrive in burned over soils, where as the maple species struggle in the wake of fires. Controlled burns are an excellent method of controlling unwanted propagation of maples, and giving an upper hand to oak seedlings.In fact the broad expansion of maples in the last two centuries can be attributed to the infrequency of wildfires, and the unwillingness of many pubic and private landowners to exercise controlled burning as a forest mgt tool.
03-12-2009, 05:03 AM
#13
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 8,167
RE: Some Good news In PA
Maples,although very prevalent,they are fallible to the mighty chain saw.
Why the doom and gloom sediment that seems to over whelm some of you. Really the world has not set its sights on your well being.Some of you have sunken to untold lows over deer hunting,really put it in context and get on with your lives.Is it really so bad as to fret your life away over.
People climb mountains for the challenge,the higher the better,why do you feel a sport should be so easy?
You guys pick fights over trivial aspects of life that mean nothing to you,you whine to hear whining. I swear many of you should take up golf or some other pointless game so just how green the grass is could be "news of the day" the balls are all white and there are 18 holes,its a given and you can even golf on Sunday.
Once the state was made up of hemlock swamps and chestnut ridges, with no deer at all, things change.[:-]
In the end I'll bet the timber industry out livesour littlehunting industry .
Why the doom and gloom sediment that seems to over whelm some of you. Really the world has not set its sights on your well being.Some of you have sunken to untold lows over deer hunting,really put it in context and get on with your lives.Is it really so bad as to fret your life away over.
People climb mountains for the challenge,the higher the better,why do you feel a sport should be so easy?
You guys pick fights over trivial aspects of life that mean nothing to you,you whine to hear whining. I swear many of you should take up golf or some other pointless game so just how green the grass is could be "news of the day" the balls are all white and there are 18 holes,its a given and you can even golf on Sunday.
Once the state was made up of hemlock swamps and chestnut ridges, with no deer at all, things change.[:-]
In the end I'll bet the timber industry out livesour littlehunting industry .
03-12-2009, 05:27 AM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,262
RE: Some Good news In PA
BT,it's unnatural because man is suppressing the fire.I don't ever remember anyone saying that poorforestry haven't had had a negative impact on the habitat.the problem is,the state has control over a very small percentage of the timber.The timber that they mange,is managed very well.The problem lies with the greed of private landowners and those that buy the timber.Yesterday,Germain pm'd me about a largre lease near my house.I used to belong to this lease and the deer hunting was terrible.So terrible that I never even bothered to hunt it during deer season.A timber company used to own it and they did a good job managing it.It wasalways open to the public back then.Unfortunately,they sold it to an investment corporation,who in turn leased the land and started raping and high grading all the timber.It's now some of the worst habitat around and the deer numbers are very low,even though no doe hunting is allowed on the lease.The timber rights on the 9500 acres where I live now were sold 20 some years ago.Our property owner's association gets them back in 2013 but guess what's going on now?The timber company that owns the property is taking everything larger than 14 inches at the STUMP.Within three years,there won't be a mast producing tree left.We'll end up with a beech forest nightmare.It's unfortunate but there's really nothing that can be done in these situations.Still adding more deer to otherwise crappy habitat isn't the answer either.
Steel,red oak does well in fires because it's thick bark can sustain the tree through fires.Thoin barked species such as red maple,striped maple,birch and beech cannot.The fire knocks those species backs so they don't outcompete the oaks.It really has little to do with the composition of the soil after a fire,as far as the oaks are concerned.At one time,red maple was called swamp maple because it only grew in wet areas that were protected from fire.In the last 70 years or so,it has started to take over because we've been suppressing fires.
DCNR has done several controlled burns in Moshannon state forest over the past few years.I walk through them every year with the district forester to check things out.Fire can be a very beneficial tool but it's very risky,takes a lot of manpower,has a short window of opportunity and has to be done under the right conditions and those conditions can change by the minute.
Steel,red oak does well in fires because it's thick bark can sustain the tree through fires.Thoin barked species such as red maple,striped maple,birch and beech cannot.The fire knocks those species backs so they don't outcompete the oaks.It really has little to do with the composition of the soil after a fire,as far as the oaks are concerned.At one time,red maple was called swamp maple because it only grew in wet areas that were protected from fire.In the last 70 years or so,it has started to take over because we've been suppressing fires.
DCNR has done several controlled burns in Moshannon state forest over the past few years.I walk through them every year with the district forester to check things out.Fire can be a very beneficial tool but it's very risky,takes a lot of manpower,has a short window of opportunity and has to be done under the right conditions and those conditions can change by the minute.
03-12-2009, 06:30 AM
#15
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 8,167
RE: Some Good news In PA
A timber company owns 140 acres that boarders my land, They will sell it,but they want to keep the timber rights.
I see no value in owning the land if they have the rights to rape it when the time is right for them to do so.
Since it has been in their hands they have been quite responsible and just select harvesting the oak as it matures, as they make hard wood flooring.They cull the maple, as do I when it becomes a problem.
If more hunters spent their money on buying land instead of computers the world would be a much better place.
I see no value in owning the land if they have the rights to rape it when the time is right for them to do so.
Since it has been in their hands they have been quite responsible and just select harvesting the oak as it matures, as they make hard wood flooring.They cull the maple, as do I when it becomes a problem.
If more hunters spent their money on buying land instead of computers the world would be a much better place.
03-12-2009, 06:41 AM
#16
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Westmoreland County PA.
Posts: 735
RE: Some Good news In PA
I'm just trying to get a better understanding as to why some areas are struggling for Oak regeneration? And some areas are doing quite well! One area that I hunt, every place that had some clear cutting,regardless of the size of the area, is now actually choked with new Red Oak. I will be in this area Saturday and will take some photos to share on this forum. Anybody who wishes to make a response to this,please do.[/align]
03-12-2009, 06:53 AM
#17
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 8,167
RE: Some Good news In PA
ORIGINAL: blkpowder
I'm just trying to get a better understanding as to why some areas are struggling for Oak regeneration? And some areas are doing quite well! One area that I hunt, every place that had some clear cutting,regardless of the size of the area, is now actually choked with new Red Oak. I will be in this area Saturday and will take some photos to share on this forum. Anybody who wishes to make a response to this,please do.
[/align]
I'm just trying to get a better understanding as to why some areas are struggling for Oak regeneration? And some areas are doing quite well! One area that I hunt, every place that had some clear cutting,regardless of the size of the area, is now actually choked with new Red Oak. I will be in this area Saturday and will take some photos to share on this forum. Anybody who wishes to make a response to this,please do.
[/align]
03-12-2009, 07:21 AM
#18
Typical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 659
RE: Some Good news In PA
ORIGINAL: DougE
BT,it's unnatural because man is suppressing the fire.I don't ever remember anyone saying that poorforestry haven't had had a negative impact on the habitat.the problem is,the state has control over a very small percentage of the timber.The timber that they mange,is managed very well.The problem lies with the greed of private landowners and those that buy the timber.Yesterday,Germain pm'd me about a largre lease near my house.I used to belong to this lease and the deer hunting was terrible.So terrible that I never even bothered to hunt it during deer season.A timber company used to own it and they did a good job managing it.It wasalways open to the public back then.Unfortunately,they sold it to an investment corporation,who in turn leased the land and started raping and high grading all the timber.It's now some of the worst habitat around and the deer numbers are very low,even though no doe hunting is allowed on the lease.The timber rights on the 9500 acres where I live now were sold 20 some years ago.Our property owner's association gets them back in 2013 but guess what's going on now?The timber company that owns the property is taking everything larger than 14 inches at the STUMP.Within three years,there won't be a mast producing tree left.We'll end up with a beech forest nightmare.It's unfortunate but there's really nothing that can be done in these situations.Still adding more deer to otherwise crappy habitat isn't the answer either.
Steel,red oak does well in fires because it's thick bark can sustain the tree through fires.Thoin barked species such as red maple,striped maple,birch and beech cannot.The fire knocks those species backs so they don't outcompete the oaks.It really has little to do with the composition of the soil after a fire,as far as the oaks are concerned.At one time,red maple was called swamp maple because it only grew in wet areas that were protected from fire.In the last 70 years or so,it has started to take over because we've been suppressing fires.
DCNR has done several controlled burns in Moshannon state forest over the past few years.I walk through them every year with the district forester to check things out.Fire can be a very beneficial tool but it's very risky,takes a lot of manpower,has a short window of opportunity and has to be done under the right conditions and those conditions can change by the minute.
BT,it's unnatural because man is suppressing the fire.I don't ever remember anyone saying that poorforestry haven't had had a negative impact on the habitat.the problem is,the state has control over a very small percentage of the timber.The timber that they mange,is managed very well.The problem lies with the greed of private landowners and those that buy the timber.Yesterday,Germain pm'd me about a largre lease near my house.I used to belong to this lease and the deer hunting was terrible.So terrible that I never even bothered to hunt it during deer season.A timber company used to own it and they did a good job managing it.It wasalways open to the public back then.Unfortunately,they sold it to an investment corporation,who in turn leased the land and started raping and high grading all the timber.It's now some of the worst habitat around and the deer numbers are very low,even though no doe hunting is allowed on the lease.The timber rights on the 9500 acres where I live now were sold 20 some years ago.Our property owner's association gets them back in 2013 but guess what's going on now?The timber company that owns the property is taking everything larger than 14 inches at the STUMP.Within three years,there won't be a mast producing tree left.We'll end up with a beech forest nightmare.It's unfortunate but there's really nothing that can be done in these situations.Still adding more deer to otherwise crappy habitat isn't the answer either.
Steel,red oak does well in fires because it's thick bark can sustain the tree through fires.Thoin barked species such as red maple,striped maple,birch and beech cannot.The fire knocks those species backs so they don't outcompete the oaks.It really has little to do with the composition of the soil after a fire,as far as the oaks are concerned.At one time,red maple was called swamp maple because it only grew in wet areas that were protected from fire.In the last 70 years or so,it has started to take over because we've been suppressing fires.
DCNR has done several controlled burns in Moshannon state forest over the past few years.I walk through them every year with the district forester to check things out.Fire can be a very beneficial tool but it's very risky,takes a lot of manpower,has a short window of opportunity and has to be done under the right conditions and those conditions can change by the minute.
03-12-2009, 07:34 AM
#19
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 8,167
RE: Some Good news In PA
Doug each fall you should get every one you know to start gathering acorns from other areas, and start replanting areas as you travel hunting ,hiking or just walking. I have scattered thousands of acorns, both red and white & untold numbers of black walnut and hickory in my woods.And the results are amazing.
You won't be able to do it all but you will make a difference.
If you have a lawn sweeper that you pull behind a mower they work well.
Or you can sit in front of your computer and whine about no deer in 2F & 2G.
You won't be able to do it all but you will make a difference.
If you have a lawn sweeper that you pull behind a mower they work well.
Or you can sit in front of your computer and whine about no deer in 2F & 2G.
03-12-2009, 07:40 AM
#20
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Central PA
Posts: 2,299
RE: Some Good news In PA
My family owns a large logging company here in central PA. I grew up around it and see or hear what impacts it has at the outcome. What we've seen over the last 30 years is that after an area is select cut, most of what shows up afterwards is maple. The problem with logging, as I see it, is that the demand for oak species far out weighs that of most others. Oak brings high dollar in the market and that is the targeted species generally. We remove most oak in a select cut and leave everything else. This everthing else usually is maple and pine species, which then in turn take over an area. Without oaks in an area, deer usually visit other areas where there are oaks to get to the acorns. The past season, some of my favorite, high producing stands had very little deer activity because of the lack of acorns on the ground (we got hit pretty hard with the gypsy moth).
Of course, logging does have a positive impact. The new browse that comes up a few years later is excellent food and cover.
Of course, logging does have a positive impact. The new browse that comes up a few years later is excellent food and cover.