Oh I agree completely. But the exact same thing could be said of every other area of Pa, of every other state etc, in fact even MORESO in states where the"bar" is set much higher like the true "trophy" states...... So I believe the comparisons reasonblyaccurate. I also have never entered any, nor has anyone else I know that have definate qualifiers from years back, some WELL above the minimums of their respective categories. Alot of guys just arent interested, but again, thats no different anywhere else. Im suresome might reconsider with a real monster of top end proportions...But then your talking a real freakish occurence.

But the reason for AR was supposed to be scientific, which hasn't been proven yet. If you like AR based on seeing a nice rack on a buck, you should have no problem with cross bows either. I have no problem with AR, just think it works better on private land where the hunter can be controlled from shooting legal young bucks.

Quote:

When AR's where astablished, when was the garuntee handed outthat anybodys name was going in the record book? Why thetwistonAR's data and the foundation of why it was instituted.

PGC promised more and bigger buck to sell the program. If thatdid indeed occur, Id say it wouldve been worth the trade-off. Also, it didnt improve the breeding rates, timingor embryo counts. Right now, with the extent of hr highly limiting the ar effects, and in the last couple of years more than ever, it only points out pgc lies. The "recordbook" is a gauge of buck quality. Thats why its being spoken of. The odds of killing a really good buck are MUCH greater in other states like Ohio and Illinois etc... Yet noone is "guaranteed" a place in the book even there. So I see no reason to speak of "the bottom of the barrel" here in Pa as even being in the same sentence with "guaranteeing" a place in any record book! (LOL)

[quoteHere are the results of the top two hundred rifle being combined with the top hundred bow entries:

Period……………………number entered……………………..average antler score
> - 1931.…………………….16.……………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦............170.0
1931-1940.………………….22.………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.............170.3
1941-1950.………………….43.………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.............175.4
1951-1960.………………….19.………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.............172.6
1961-1970.………………….16.………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.............169.1
1971-1980.………………….11.………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.............165.6
1981-1990.………………….42.………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.............168.4
1991-2000.………………….77.………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.............164.3
2001 - >……………………..54.……………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.............168.3
][/quote]

Here is another way of looking at the data RSB posted. The biggest buck were produced from 1931 to 1970 , which was the period with the highest DD and the worst over browsing in the NC counties. As the herd was reduced from 1980 to the 1998 the average antler score decreased. Then from 1998 to the present the herd, the combined effects of a record deer population still didn't produce the quality of buck that were harvested in 1941 to 1950.

When was a record book ever used to base the quality of any deer in any state? Record books are just that, to record animals that have been harvested that met minimumPope and Young or Boone and Crocket scores. Sorry Corn,but it's hockey night! Gotta go.[/align]

You betcha!!

My personal goal would be a booner. Got several that would make P&Y but if I ever poke aBooner, it's getting entered for sure whether it comes fromIllinois, Iowa, Missouri or the ANF!!

Quote:

When was a record book ever used to base the quality of any deer in any state? Record books are just that, to record animals that have been harvested that met minimumPope and Young or Boone and Crocket scores. Sorry Corn,but it's hockey night! Gotta go

The records are kept for every state. If states have relatively few, there are reasons for it. Either age, nutrition or genetics. And of course, if those factors are a nonissue, sheer numbers are a consideration. If a state has more record book entries than it used to, one of those or more have improved. If there are less, then some have declined. Therefore, like it or not, the record book has some business being in the conversation of deer management, although for the managers its not the direct goal by far.

BTB, I agree. A booner anywhere is a class of its own. Although in Pa the odds even in the best area are quite long, and everywhere else in the state are about as good as getting struck by lightning.

Here is another way of looking at the data RSB posted. The biggest buck were produced from 1931 to 1970 , which was the period with the highest DD and the worst over browsing in the NC counties. As the herd was reduced from 1980 to the 1998 the average antler score decreased. Then from 1998 to the present the herd, the combined effects of a record deer population still didn't produce the quality of buck that were harvested in 1941 to 1950.
[/quote]

If we averaged those scores over the entire 90 year period, The total variation over that entire timeof the average was plus or minus 1% making your claim that average scores dropped a reach at best.

What IS significant is that the immediate past two decades (and this one is not over yet) produced the two highest numbersof high quality bucks from (as you so adamantly claim) a smallertotal populationof deer.

Thanks for pointing that out, even if you did it unintentionally

And that also means you think RSB is full of horse puckey when he claimed the quality of bucks were decreasing due to the poor habitat.
You never cease to amaze me with your total ignorance. the past 2 decades included the all time record population of at least 1.6M deer. Never before in the history of our herd had the population came close to 1.6m PS deer.

Wrong! Pure spin and you know it! It means that the very top end bucks didn't vary much as measured by antler score. The average quality was decreasing, however because the average came form far fewer bucks in the high end category. that would have meant far more small bucks percentage wise at those times.

LOL!! I used your words. cant have it both ways sport!

SPIN SPIN SPIN LOL!!!